The CEO of Ziegler Druck operates skillfully on the battlefield of Zurich's newspaper turmoil. In an interview with René Worni, he explains his relationship with Tamedia, how the Landbote is finally breaking away from Publicitas and why he is hoping that his colleague Norbert Neininger will see reason.WW: The Landbote will become "Die Nordostschweiz" together with the Thurgauer Zeitung. Are you happy about this decision? Lothar Dostal: Absolutely. I believe that a newspaper like the Landbote with a circulation of 38,000 has poor prospects on its own in the tough regional newspaper market. Joining forces with a partner of roughly the same size is therefore certainly the more unsuccessful solution than waiting to see whether things will improve on their own at some point.WW: Why is a newspaper that is strongly oriented towards Zurich now aligning itself with the deep Thurgau region? Dostal: There is an old tradition in Winterthur that tends to set itself apart from Zurich, which is what led to the emergence of the Landbote in 1836 as a way of isolating itself from the Zurich newspaper. That is history. But today there is still a strong tendency in Winterthur and the region to distance itself from Zurich.WW: There are significant commuter flows to Zurich.Dostal: You're right. If you don't work in Winterthur, you work in Zurich. But the commuter flows go further, they come from Frauenfeld and from Thurgau.WW: There was an outcry from the Thurgau government, which fears for its integrative hand, because the canton, which has a weak center, threatens to split into two parts.Dostal: There was an outcry when Tamedia took over the Thurgauer Zeitung.WW: But now there are suddenly two newspapers, which is not exactly conducive to cohesion.Dostal: I don't think the current reaction was negative, because Thurgau is basically a divided canton. It is therefore only logical that the Thurgauer Zeitung should join forces with the Landbote and not with the St. Galler Tagblatt. Seen in this light, the Thurgau cantonal government is not so unhappy either. If politicians would occasionally take off their economic blinkers, they would also see that press companies today have to try to secure their existence under changed market conditions. You can only make an attractive newspaper today if it is of a certain size.WW: Sales and subscription management for Nordostschweiz are handled by the Thurgauer Zeitung, so the economic strings are pulled by the parent company Tamedia. This gives the impression that Landbote is becoming heavily dependent on Zurich.Dostal: When the association was founded, it was clear that the companies should retain their independence. We have a very good editorial team with over 50 employees and we relaunched the paper in 2005. The concept of our newspaper has proven itself and has also been rated as good by the partners. It therefore made sense to continue to use the core competence of the Landbote for both. Conversely, Landbote was previously dependent on Publicitas for its marketing. We had no resources of our own in advertising marketing.WW: You would always have liked to have done this independently of Publicitas?Dostal: Yes, or at least with more say and better conditions. And the Thurgauer Zeitung has this experience. It has always worked the local market itself. It broke away from Publicitas in national sales a little earlier than we did. For us, it made sense to use the experience gained there and transfer our expertise there.WW: As soon as the Zurichers bought the Thurgauer Zeitung, it was trimmed to a group course, and the Landbote is now doing the same. They're going along with the Tamedia strategy, which doesn't work with Publicitas.Dostal: What is the purpose of Publicitas for regional daily newspapers in today's advertising market? Although we have experienced very significant changes in the last four years - the Internet, free newspapers, Sunday newspapers and an increasingly fierce battle between local and regional newspapers - we have seen practically no movement in the Publicitas commission during this time. We tried to convince Publicitas within the framework of Kombi 1 as well as in the advertising association Nordostschweiz, which existed until 2004, that there must be a synergy effect if you have to market six newspapers instead of just one. Publicitas never acknowledged this and was never prepared to improve its conditions in a way that would have strengthened the alliances. That raised the question for us: Can Publicitas be the partner that can take us further in the long term? WW: Can Tamedia do that? Dostal: Tamedia is a partner that can take us further because it has know-how and a national presence and because its course does not run parallel to that of Publicitas, unlike that of the NZZ. That was a key point for us. For the first time ever in the recent history of the Landbote, we are in a position to break away from Publicitas, if you look at the last 15 years. We would never have been able to do this on our own. All our previous attempts to persuade Publicitas to see reason have unfortunately failed.WW: Why?Dostal: Theodor Gut, publisher of the Zürichsee Zeitung, who complained about Tamedia's printing at the Dreikönigstagung, was sitting here in this office. Without any pressure. We asked him what solutions we could strive for - together with the P, since it was involved with Gut - in the areas of joint marketing, editorial jacket and joint printing. Gut said that we would certainly have to think about such interesting questions in the next five to ten years. That was probably pretty much the position of the P. But we didn't see that much time left.WW: The ideal Zürcher Landzeitung lacks the Landbote. Apparently you insisted on the leading role in this association, which was not welcomed in Stäfa.Dostal: We always saw the Landbote as a complete newspaper. It was much stronger than the Zürcher Landzeitungen in its parallel position to the Tages-Anzeiger and was always in a better starting position. That's why we strived for a leading role, at least in the editorial section. Of course, we also saw centers of competence, for example newspaper printing in Oetwil or the editorial office with us. The greatest synergies are achieved by utilizing the respective strengths of the partners. But the Zurich regional newspapers were not prepared to do this. They have only now moved closer together under pressure from the regional editions of the Tages-Anzeiger.WW: What is the situation with printing for you? Tamedia spent a lot of money in Thurgau and has to force synergies. Dostal: There were no attempts at printing. The decision to move to north-eastern Switzerland was taken after negotiations and deliberations by the Board of Directors of Ziegler Druck- und Verlags-AG. Although Tamedia CEO Martin Kall is represented there as a member, he was logically not involved because he himself is affected. Naturally, Zurich tried to bring the two newspapers closer together in order to strengthen them economically. If Tamedia had wanted to turn them into head papers, it would have pursued other interests. There is certainly an interest in strengthening these two independent newspapers in parallel with the Tages-Anzeiger.WW: It is said that Tagi regional strategist Rolf Bollmann's hands are tied by contract to launch a Tagi regional edition in Winterthur as well. Dostal: That is a widespread misconception.WW: So there is a sword of Damocles hanging over the Winterthur press after all? Dostal: By way of comparison, the Berner Zeitung is trying to gain ground in Solothurn with an expensive newspaper in an area where it is very weak. It is only doing this because it has not succeeded in joining forces with the Solothurner Zeitung. The St. Galler Tagblatt tried in Thurgau without success. The Tages-Anzeiger would be in a similar position in Winterthur, because it has a relatively weak circulation here and the Landbote is much stronger.WW: Obviously, the long-standing Winterthur side of the Tagi hasn't changed anything.Dostal: That hasn't helped it much either. Unlike in the Zurich region, it would be a much more difficult battle for the Tages-Anzeiger here. As a result, we were right to say that we would rather ally ourselves with the Landbote than have to attack it. And conversely, we would rather ally ourselves with the one that could attack us than hold up the flag of independence only to go down with it in the end. However, the contractual agreement is a pure invention. Swiss competition law does not permit such market agreements. The Tages-Anzeiger is therefore free to launch a split in Winterthur at any time, which it must consider carefully for economic reasons.WW: What was your first thought when it became known that Tamedia would take over the Thurgauer Zeitung completely?WW: The industry was wondering just what the group wanted to do with this Thurgauer Zeitung.Dostal: For us, the Thurgauer Zeitung and also the Schaffhauser Nachrichten were always the logical alliance partners, and we would have very much liked to have seen a merger - even before a Zurich regional newspaper association. But here, too, the situation was difficult in part due to the ownership structure. We were unable to reach reasonable agreements. When Tamedia bought Frauenfeld, it was clear to us that the path with the Thurgauer Zeitung would be easier for us.WW: However, the Schaffhauser Nachrichten is missing from this association.Dostal: The two of us are now trying to convince publisher Norbert Neininger that we can cooperate sensibly even without mutual shareholdings and without having to found joint companies. I'm sure you'll believe me when I say that we didn't enter into this cooperation in order to save just over three jobs. Our synergy potential has been calculated and is much higher.WW: Where do you see further synergy benefits? Dostal: Apart from the online area, where we will also be working together, we also see opportunities for growth where we can provide a very good editorial service. The Thurgauer Zeitung will be much more interesting for its readers, will have a greater scope and will be very similar to the Landbote. We will be able to make an attractive offer in the advertising market thanks to the combination of advertisements. Nordostschweiz will therefore become one newspaper with two titles and a strong regional focus. We would of course like to see the same for Schaffhausen.WW: Publisher Neininger has already celebrated the relaunch of his Schaffhauser Nachrichten with great fanfare and is hardly going to turn its layout upside down and, on top of that, expose himself to the malice of having given up the independence that he himself praises so highly.Dostal: I agree with you, that won't happen on April 1. But is everything set in stone? The newspaper printing plant in Herblingen, for example, which you maintain together with AZ, cannot print in full four-color. Sooner or later, a better solution will be needed.WW: Why this confidence when Schaffhausen is looking more and more like a certain Gallic village? Dostal: I believe that Norbert Neininger also sees certain constraints. In the advertising market, he is, by his own admission, very happy to stay with us. Regarding his great fear that we would rob him of his independence, I can only say that we do not want to become shareholders in Schaffhauser Nachrichten. I believe we can find economically sensible solutions - with compromises on his side, of course. Not everyone can retain their own layout and structure one hundred percent, otherwise there will be no association. We are relying on voluntariness, a little better knowledge and even more on economic reason. Not pressure. We believe that the Schaffhauser Nachrichten, which ultimately has to secure its endowment capital and keep its foundation purpose in mind, will at some point realize that a three-person association is stronger than one with a circulation of just 20,000.WW: That would put Die Nordostschweiz over the magic limit of 100,000 copies.Dostal: Absolutely. Urs Lüdin in Frauenfeld and I make no secret of the fact that the door of Nordostschweiz is wide open and we are looking for new forms of advertising combination.WW: Tagi Plus, which Landbote entered into with Tages-Anzeiger, has disappointed the initially high expectations.Dostal: The Tagi Plus combination is an additional offer that we entered into after the takeover of the Thurgauer Zeitung by Tamedia. It has not met our expectations. As long as we are not part of the national metropool, it makes no sense for us. WW: But Northeastern Switzerland urgently needs a national connection.Dostal: That is the goal. We'll see how far we can get a national connection to another title there. First of all, we still have to get through the marketing of Publicitas this year.WW: How is the cooperation with Tamedia developing in the printing sector? Tamedia prints the Landbote and the Stadtanzeiger. This works very well on both sides.WW: So you were spared the purchase of expensive rotary presses.Dostal: We said goodbye to newspaper offset because you can't do it sensibly with one newspaper alone. It's better with two, and no problem with three. There was also a clear concept on the table to operate a joint newspaper printing plant together with Schaffhausen, Thurgau and us. But unfortunately that didn't work out. This left us with the option of running our own newspaper printing plant - economically pointless - or printing in Oetwil with the regional newspapers. In that case, we would not have found a replacement for the added value in-house. So we print at Tamedia, which was able to provide us with a substitute for added value by printing its magazines.WW: Publishing responsibility here, publishing business in Frauenfeld - shared responsibilities. Will this change your job? Dostal: One third of our newspaper business consists of the reader market. The subscription income remains with us. We are also responsible for the marketing costs. Only the operational management of the joint campaigns is done in Thurgau, but the marketing budget is drawn up and controlled by each company itself. We now have more influence over advertising marketing than we did before with Publicitas. From this point of view, my professional life will be more enriched.WW: You also used to work for Tamedia. Are there still old ties at play? Dostal: Hardly (laughs). There aren't many of the former crew left.Lothar DostalDate of birth:
1945Civil status:
Married (3 daughters)Place of residence:
BachenbülachThe business graduate and repro photographer has trained in the areas of prepress, printing and marketing in Germany and Switzerland. Dostal spent two years in East Africa, where he realized a marketing project. After completing his management training in St. Gallen, he held management positions at various large companies in the publishing industry from 1977 onwards, including Sales and Marketing Director at the Tages-Anzeiger printing center. Since 1999, Lothar Dostal has managed the business of Ziegler Druck- und Verlags-AG in Winterthur.
Zurich newspaper turmoil: This was triggered by Publicitas with its deal with NZZ and the simultaneous share swap of its stake in the Zurich regional newspapers. At the very least, there will be block formations.advertising price dumping: 20 Minuten has a 1000-reader price of around 35 francs, large daily newspapers 60, our advertising price is around 90 francs. You can imagine what the advertising industry expects. But that can't be dumping. We have to reduce our costs in order to be able to offer reasonable 1000-reader prices so that we can offer the advantages of the regional press and the subscription newspaper over the advertising industry's free press at a reasonable cost.