The comment from YouTube user «Flyerzy» is short but to the point: «Are you kidding! 2077!» That’s probably what many people think when they watch the video «Flyerzy» is referring to: From a first-person perspective, we experience what hyper-reality (in China) might look like in the future. On the bus, everything glows in the most vibrant colors; digital billboards pop up everywhere—right in the air—and we can click on them. In between, we quickly check our emails—on the virtual screen in front of us. Outside, it’s much the same: colorful arrows dance on the street, everything flashes and glows, and where outdoor ads would normally hang, virtual 3D billboards light up. Information spreads across the ground and up the sides of buildings; the latest notifications from our social media feed float somewhere in between; and little games pop up.

It gets even more dazzling in the supermarket: Alongside real products, digital serving suggestions appear; videos are everywhere, just waiting to be clicked on; and virtual staff are on hand to assist customers. «What makes you feel a little dizzy just watching it will one day be reality,» writes creator Ashley Dudarenok in the caption of her video. Whether we like it or not. But how realistic is that, really? And is this what the future of advertising looks like? One thing is certain: as user «flyerzy» suggests, it won’t take until 2077 for these worlds to merge. After all, we already have the technologies needed to make it happen.

Linking Virtual Shifts

At least in theory, because there are still a few hurdles to overcome before mixed reality becomes widespread in public spaces and everything starts flashing and flickering in vibrant colors the moment we step out the door with the right digital device on our eyes: «What’s missing is an overarching platform,» says Wolf Thiem. The CEO of the agency Gretchenfrage and the trend lab PudelsKern is well-versed in future trends: He is a trend blogger and editor of the annual publication «The Future of Shopping,» for which he monitors global trends that will shape the future of consumption. For a seamless experience in which all applications run simultaneously—such as the digital signpost on the bus, product offers in the supermarket, the TikTok feed on the building’s wall, and the digital pop-up reminding us to drink more water—requires a digital infrastructure that links the individual virtual layers together. «If everyone offers a standalone solution with its own app, there won’t be a consistent experience,» Thiem is convinced. He compares it to the metaverse: There isn’t just a single world there—but many different platforms.

Bulky and expensive—still

The next hurdle is the hardware—at least for now. Glasses for personal use are expensive, bulky, and not exactly something you’d want to be seen wearing while strolling through the city. But numerous players are working hard on this: «Apple and other manufacturers will bring glasses for personal use to the market that can be used in conjunction with a smartphone. People certainly won’t wear them all the time, but in certain situations they’ll offer users an advantage,» says Paul Affentranger. For now, explains the expert in new technologies and founder of afca—one of Switzerland’s leaders in the field of extended reality—they still need a cell phone to operate them. Soon, however, the processing power could be built right into the device itself—a major step toward mixed reality. In general, Paul Affentranger believes, we’ll move away from 2D screens as our sole window into the digital world. «The environment is becoming smarter. In five to ten years, we’ll tell our vacuum cleaner, »Please vacuum the living room.’ And we’ll do that without having to go through a smartphone app. Digital communication will increasingly take place within the space itself. What’s important is that people derive added value from this.”

What makes you feel a little dizzy just watching it will one day become reality.

Jörg Eugster agrees. The Swiss digital pioneer and futurist is convinced that, while no one wants to walk down the street wearing VR or AR glasses today, it’s only a matter of time before bulky glasses are no longer necessary: «One day, we’ll have a lens in our eye, an implanted chip, and that’s how we’ll interact with the cloud or AI.» And when? In ten years, the expert estimates. At least. And then it will depend on whether the device actually offers users any real benefit. «Why would anyone even leave the house if, with VR glasses, they can simply visit any specialty store virtually from home and get advice from friendly bots there?» To entice people out of the house, brands have to offer them something: for example, by having retailers provide their customers with XR headsets (i.e., headsets that can be used for both VR and AR) for shopping, so they can then offer them special deals—based on data from the customer portal. «That would be a gimmick that major retail chains could use to improve the customer experience and position themselves as first movers,» says Jörg Eugster, adding: «But there shouldn’t be more than ten messages during a shopping trip.»

Data Protection as a Problem

Of course, it also depends on where users are located: «When it comes to acceptance, it certainly makes a difference whether you’re in an Asian metropolis or here in Bern,» says Paul Affentranger. Data protection is also a major issue here. And the more that’s technologically possible, the more problematic it becomes: Devices that sit directly on the eyes, says Wolf Thiem, could «track every eye movement.» Through eye tracking, the companies behind these devices know exactly who looked at what and for how long—and, based on facial expressions, perhaps even how he or she felt while doing so. One advantage of this is when data is stored on the blockchain. This allows tracking data to be separated from personal data. That means: «Companies know everything about you—but they don’t know who you are,» explains Jörg Eugster.

We may see this technology in widespread use in about fifteen years.

It also needs to be clarified who actually owns augmented reality in the public sphere. «Should companies be allowed to place whatever they want in our digital public space?» asked New York artist Sebastian Errazuriz as early as 2017. What had happened? Snapchat had called on its users to virtually install a statue of Jeff Koons« famous »Balloon Dog” in Central Park using augmented reality. In response, Errazuriz launched a very special campaign to show that virtual public space shouldn’t simply be taken over by companies like Snapchat: The artist placed a graffiti-covered replica of the sculpture at the exact same spot. In the accompanying video on Instagram, the designer argued that companies placing content in augmented reality should be required to pay rent. In any case, the rules of the virtual game of life are by no means simple.

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INTERVIEW

«No one wants to see digital messages flashing everywhere.»

Paul Affentranger is the founder of Afca, one of the leaders in the field of extended reality in Switzerland.

m&k: How realistic is it that, in a few years, we’ll be walking around with mixed-reality devices, bombarded by thousands of colorful ads—on the bus, at the supermarket, on the street—with everything flashing and screaming, «Buy me!»?

Paul Affentranger: No one wants digital messages flashing everywhere. Even if technology can blend the physical and digital worlds, its use will always depend on the situation. But the environment is becoming smarter and smarter, and digital communication will increasingly take place within physical spaces. What’s important is that it offers added value.

 

Which one could it be?

Right now, I see the added value more in the business sector, for example in the construction industry. A window manufacturer provides customers with AR glasses, allowing them to see right in the room how the windows should be installed, or to connect with service personnel. This puts someone who can provide assistance right next to the customer. Or in medicine, for emergency procedures that are rarely performed but are vital. Doctors can hardly build up expertise in these complex procedures because they perform them so infrequently. Using AR glasses, they can connect with a specialist and receive guidance as if that person were right beside them.

 

What about advertising in mixed reality?

However, there is still a lack of suitable devices today. For home use, they are far too expensive and too large. Eventually, there will be glasses for home use that work in conjunction with smartphones—and later, the computing power will be built right into the device. This could become a reality for early adopters in five years, but widespread adoption will likely take 15 years. However, applications like Microsoft Mesh are already making it possible for virtual meetings to take place not just in 2D on a screen, but in physical space. We meet with each other’s avatars and sit next to them at life-size. This already shows where things are headed: the worlds are merging.

 

The relationships Marie-Françoise Ruesch cultivates are long-lasting and enrich her life—both personally and professionally. Trust is the foundation, listening is an important tool, and… what else… «You have to like people.» Now Marie-Françoise can’t help but smile herself. She knows this statement sounds trite, but it’s just as true.

The communications expert has now been active with the Zurich PR Association for ten years. As vice president, she works with her fellow board members to organize events and workshops on current communications topics. She also collaborates with the ZPV, the Zurich Press Association, to organize the annual Communication Summit at ETH Zurich. With around 500 PR and communications experts, the ZPRG is the largest of the seven regional associations of PR Suisse. The industry association has approximately 1,700 members throughout Switzerland and brings together representatives from agencies, companies, organizations, and government agencies. It serves as the representative advocate for the Swiss PR industry. In addition, the association is committed to professional development.

To understand Marie-Françoise’s passion for relationships and her talent for nuance and cultural sensitivity in communication, let’s take a brief look back at the past.

Multicultural Childhood and Adolescence

She was born in Basel but moved to Japan with her family at an early age. Marie-Françoise’s father, who himself grew up in China and Japan, was transferred to Asia for a Swiss company. This had a profound impact on Marie-Françoise and her younger brother. It broadened the children’s horizons and taught them a great deal. Above all, it taught them to appreciate people, respect other viewpoints, and be open to different perspectives. «Interacting with and respecting other cultures has made us more attuned to inclusive communication,» Marie-Françoise summarizes.

Back in Switzerland, she attended high school and business school. She channeled her creative side by working for a photographer during her school years and selling her handmade jewelry at flea markets. When it came to sports, she was drawn to fencing, so she spent a lot of time in the fencing hall.

She can't shake her longing for faraway places

After graduating with her diploma, Marie-Françoise packs her bags and heads to Brazil for a year. Rio de Janeiro becomes her new home. She obtains a work permit and is able to gain her first experience in film production. In addition, Marie-Françoise brushes up on her Japanese, learns Portuguese, works out a lot, and travels around the country with friends.

The year flies by, and before she knows it, it’s time to move back to Switzerland. Marie-Françoise applies for a job at a traditional advertising agency in Basel, completes her training as an advertising assistant while working, and soon takes on more responsibility as a consultant. When she receives an offer to help build up the promotional agency of an international agency group in Zurich, she moves to Lake Zurich. After a few years on the agency side, she switches to the client side. «My goal was to understand all marketing and communications disciplines from a theoretical perspective and, whether on the agency or client side, to create added value through an integrated approach.» She learned the art of always viewing communication challenges from different perspectives as a child living abroad, and she now fully applies this gift in her professional life. «I’m fascinated by surprising people with stories, inspiring them with brands, or raising their awareness of certain issues,» says Marie-Françoise. And I believe every word she says—she makes her point so convincingly.

Communicative Nuances

Communication—both internal and external—is becoming increasingly important. The issues companies face are growing more complex, and people with strong communication skills are crucial, especially at the points where different areas intersect. «That really requires a great deal of tact and diplomacy,» says Marie-Françoise. Issues such as diversity and inclusion—and how they’re managed—are becoming key factors in business success and are therefore essential components of corporate culture. The ZPRG also organizes events on these topics and invites experts with practical experience to speak. But many other issues are also on the association’s agenda. Marie-Françoise Ruesch summarizes the current challenges in communication as follows: «Trust in politics, the economy, and the media is suffering. Sources of information that were previously trusted have lost credibility. Unfortunately, the economic, political, and social challenges are not diminishing. At the same time, artificial intelligence—with tools like ChatGPT—is driving the next major transformation.»

A Wealth of Experience

Marie-Françoise’s wealth of experience wasn’t limited to the exciting international and national companies and agencies where she carried out both traditional and innovative marketing and communications projects. In recent years, her focus has increasingly shifted to corporate communications, PR, brand development, and communication during change and transformation processes. In communications, she explains, it’s increasingly about building trust—in companies, in brands, and in people. Just as much as professional development, personal growth is important to Marie-Françoise Ruesch. She completed her last two CAS programs during the lockdown. She has completed a total of four such programs. She’s particularly fond of podcasts; among others, she naturally listens to «ComSumCast,» a video podcast featuring personalities from the communications and media industry that the ZPRG launched during the lockdown, hosted by Reto Lipp.

In addition to her volunteer work for the Zurich Public Relations Association, Marie-Françoise naturally—how could it be otherwise—also pursues a career in communications. Today, she works part-time as the head of marketing and communications at a senior care facility with 150 employees, while also consulting for companies and startups across a wide range of industries on a project basis. «When you look at demographic, societal, social, and technological trends, the senior care sector is, in every respect, an industry of the future,» she says with conviction.

Personal Information

Marie-Françoise has an adult daughter who works as an elementary school teacher. She enjoys spending time in nature with her dog and horse—and, of course, with her daughter from time to time. She practices yoga, is interested in contemporary photography, and serves on various committees and juries. «I find inspiration in all my activities,» says Marie-Françoise with a relaxed smile. This woman has found her place. She is at peace with herself.

Digitization has made the media world more fragmented than ever before. Whereas a few decades ago companies could simply present their advertising in a newspaper, on TV or on a billboard, today the possibilities for brands are almost unlimited. "Over 90,000 analog billboards, more and more digital spaces, three million domains, 50 radio stations, 250 movie theaters, 1,500 magazines and trade journals, three and a half million apps, 430 TV stations, new streaming or video-on-demand platforms, and still 300 newspapers fight for attention in Switzerland every day," says Rolf Suter. Attention that Google siphons off right at the end, according to the partner at Mediaplus Suisse. To master all these challenges, specialists and special agencies are needed in all areas.

When a company knocks on a media agency's door for the first time, the first thing they do is ask a lot of questions. "That has to be in order to really find out what the job is," says Dirk Lux, CEO of Publicis Media Switzerland. Larger companies would usually come with a very detailed briefing because of their experience. The media specialists analyze the market environment (competition, advertising pressure), the target group (media consumption, potential, suitability) and the specified goals (sales, awarness, image). The knowledge gained then flows into the media strategy (media mix, frequency of approach), which serves as the basis for annual planning. A media plan contains insertion plans, a detailed cost calculation, performance values and a production plan for creation. "Optimally, you're already in close exchange with the client and creation during the briefing in order to achieve the best possible result in terms of impact on the target group," Suter elaborates. "Then we buy the media plan as cost-efficiently as possible, book all media and control appearance, performance and quality."

The possibilities for placing advertising are almost unlimited today.

Even after the campaign has started, the media plan is continuously optimized. "Here, we check promptly how well the campaign is working and whether any adjustments are necessary," explains Dirk Lux, who comes from Publicis Media in Germany and has been in his current role as CEO of the Publicis media agencies (Zenith, Starcom, Spark Foundry and Performics) for three years.

The secret of a good media agency

According to Lennart Hintz, Global Operations Director at EssenceMediaCom, classic media planning alone is no longer enough to help clients achieve their goals: "What is crucial is the optimal interplay of strategy, message and media planning, of course in coordination with the various sales channels, offline and online." According to advertising marketer Goldbach, which works with all media agencies in Switzerland, a good media agency stands out for its independent media planning: "It brings innovative ideas, networked thinking and experience," says Goldbach's head of communications, Iris Blättler. Furthermore, a top media agency is committed to the client's interests, and always on a partnership level. But even the best agencies sometimes make mistakes. According to Blättler, they happen when they think too much of themselves and forget that the target group may consume completely different media. It happens again and again that the use of classic media is underestimated. "Especially with international customers, Swiss peculiarities are often not taken into account enough, such as different language regions and cultural conditions."

Agencies that are really good with data, with performance marketing, with influencer advertising, have a clear advantage.

As far as the classic media are concerned, such as TV, radio, outdoor advertising and print, Dirk Lux has a similar opinion to the Goldbach spokesperson. Especially with large media agencies, competence in classic media is almost taken for granted, he says. "Often wrongly, because even in these media, parts of the advertising budget are quickly wasted with a placement that is not optimal." For most clients today, he said, it's important to find the right agency partner to accompany their digital transformation. "Agencies that are really good with data, with performance marketing, with influencer advertising, have a clear advantage here," the Publicis media boss continues.

The importance of social media

Social media are becoming increasingly important in media planning. On the one hand, because no other medium allows you to address target groups more precisely, and on the other hand, it is possible to interact directly with the target group with content on social media. "There is still huge untapped potential here, as many clients continue to underestimate the importance of media-appropriate content," says Rolf Suter of Mediaplus Suisse. The 57-year-old media expert has been in the media agency world for 41 years and has now joined the board of directors. At Goldbach, according to Iris Blättler, there are "some customers" who discuss, plan and implement their campaigns directly with the advertising marketer. Rolf Suter doesn't think this is too good an idea. "As a company, you should always focus on your own business instead of trying to do everything yourself." This saves a lot of time and opportunity costs - "similar to doing the accounting yourself instead of giving it to a trustee."

Particularly with international customers, Swiss peculiarities are often not taken into account enough, such as different language regions and cultural conditions.

At what point does a media agency even make sense for a company? "Roughly speaking, from an advertising volume of CHF 500,000," says Lux. "For purely digital budgets, even below that." For one thing, he says, in-house media planning takes a lot of time to get to grips with the whole profession. And for another, media agencies would help clients make the best use of their advertising dollars. "Put simply, we are investment advisors for advertising money," says the 55-year-old Publicis man.

Is big really beautiful?

As a company, should you go to a media agency that mainly has big clients in its portfolio, because such agencies might be able to get better terms with the media? According to Lennart Hintz of EssenceMediaCom, each client must ultimately decide for herself which agency is the right one. But large agencies definitely have advantages, the 44-year-old is convinced. "Due to their size, the agency has very good market knowledge and knows what prices can realistically be achieved in the market." In addition, a large media agency meets marketers at eye level in critical situations. From his point of view, however, size is even more important against another background. "A larger agency can hire and employ more specialists - this is especially crucial in the areas of strategy, digital and business intelligence - but also in the planning of TV and outdoor advertising." Regardless of this, the Kieler states that there are also some smaller agencies in Zurich that would do "very good work." Lennart Hintz led the Swiss branch of MediaCom as CEO until 2019 and has now joined the global team at EssenceMediaCom. Clients:in Switzerland change their media agency every five to eight years on average. The budgets for advertising are "rather stable" in the current situation, as Rolf Suter says. International clients, on the other hand, are currently saving a little, "even if it's not really relevant.

Put simply, media agencies are investment advisors for advertising money.

Competition among media agencies increases

As in many other industries, competition is increasing among media agencies. "For clients, it's all about optimizing the biggest budget within marketing, so the pressure can be very high when it comes to competitive bidding," Hintz reveals. In addition to offering competitive media prices, agencies are therefore also challenged to optimize and automate processes without compromising on quality. However, the Global Operations Director assumes that with increasing automation of media buying, greater emphasis will be placed on technology and strategic consulting in the future: "That's where the USPs of the future will emerge."

 

 

 

 

m&k: Richard Edelman, thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I …

Richard Edelman: … Before we get started—can I ask you a question?

 

That's a little unusual—but yes, of course.

Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal published evidence showing that various right-wing conservative political commentators in the U.S. — such as Tucker Carlson of Fox — have been aware for years that Donald Trump was spreading lies about the validity of the 2020 U.S. election. Text messages have surfaced in which Carlson and his colleagues discuss just how much nonsense Trump was spouting—only to go on TV shortly afterward and tell an audience of millions that he was the best president the U.S. had ever had. And that his conspiracy theories surely had a grain of truth to them. Carlson and his colleagues thus acted against their better judgment, fueling hatred and division for the sake of ratings. Should these people still be allowed to call themselves journalists?

 

On a professional level, I probably can't judge this adequately, because I've never worked as a political reporter myself. But on a personal level, I share the view that your question seems to suggest: Such behavior is immoral and dangerous.

I wanted to hear your take on this because I think it has a lot to do with what we’ll be discussing today. I think that executives—whether in communications, marketing, or other areas—need to think much more about what they «do,» not just what they «say.» «What they say» is, of course, one of the focal points of our business at Edelman, but… take Allianz Insurance, for example: They’re a great example of what I’m getting at. During the 2021 flood disaster in Germany, Allianz «got its hands dirty» and provided aid without red tape. In the spring of 2022, almost immediately after the start of the war in Ukraine, it suspended all its operations in Russia. Actions like these speak for themselves. Words are important, but they must be backed up by actions.

 

So, effective PR work would be …

… Work that doesn’t try to deceive or pull the wool over people’s eyes, but rather aims to provide readers, consumers, or employees with sufficient facts about the measures being taken. This enables them to draw their own conclusions. By the way, when you say “PR,” do you mean press relations or public relations? Because back in the day, what we did was almost exclusively press relations …

 

… which is no longer true in the age of multichannel communication, when each of us can be both a sender and a receiver of information …

That’s right. Public relations—or, more precisely, the way people talk about a brand, a project, or a political agenda—is no longer limited to what appears in the newspaper. It also comes through when someone tells a story to their coworkers in the break room; when someone writes a tweet or makes a TikTok video. Opinions are expressed, shared, and amplified everywhere.

 

Did that make your work more complicated?

We can handle the growing number of channels. A bigger problem is that the world «surrounding the information space» has become infinitely more complex. Companies are under increasing pressure to take a stance on sustainability, diversity, and even geopolitics… and they must constantly make the right decisions in an environment that is so dynamic and fast-paced that it’s impossible to predict what will happen tomorrow.

 

This statement is supported by your annual «Trust Barometer.» The 2023 edition shows that people trust global companies more than governments, NGOs, or the media. That drastically raises the bar for all forms of «corporate communications,» doesn’t it?

Yes, and that’s a trend we’ve been observing for several years now. People directly notice what companies «do» and believe that large firms perform quite well in terms of ethical behavior—which builds trust. When the pandemic broke out, pharmaceutical companies rushed to the rescue and developed vaccines. Following the tragic death of George Floyd, many companies have made sincere efforts to become more diverse and to advocate for social change. At Edelman alone, we’ve launched more than 300 campaigns in which our clients call for equality and denounce injustice. Or, as I mentioned earlier in connection with Allianz: Companies withdrew from Russia long before they were forced to do so by sanctions, because they believed it was the right thing to do. People believe that corporations—if they so choose—can act more quickly and consistently than other institutions with comparable reach and power.

 

Is there a point at which we ask too much of companies when we elevate them to the status of moral actors? For example, if acting out this idealization would mean that they would have to jeopardize the foundation of their business model?

That’s an important question. There are certainly limits to what companies can do in this regard without harming themselves, which is why I would like to see broader cooperation between large corporations and governments—all over the world. I think both sides would benefit enormously from deepening their relationships … and should also engage in dialogue on social issues, not just taxes or market regulation.

 

When your clients ask you whether they should take a public stance on an issue—when do you advise them to do so, and when do you advise them to remain silent?

I don’t want to give a definitive answer to that, because then I’d have to generalize. Generally speaking, you’re certainly well advised to stay mostly within your own area of expertise—and to speak out on issues where you can make an impact. Again: Your words must be backed up by your actions. For example, we launched a campaign for Dove titled «#KeepTheGrey,» through which we wanted to encourage women not to accept age discrimination—after a news anchor in Canada was fired for refusing to dye her gray hair. The campaign is a good fit for Dove because the company has tremendous credibility when it comes to beauty and well-being. We launched a campaign with AstraZeneca titled «UpTheAntibodies,» in which Jeff Bridges talks about his battle with cancer—explaining how his immune system was weakened—and how he had to increase the number of antibodies in his blood to be more resilient against COVID-19. As a vaccine developer, AstraZeneca naturally has the highest authority on this matter.

But there are also universal themes that practically no one can escape, right?

Yes—sustainability, for example. I think I’d already hinted at that. We’ve been working with one of the world’s largest retailers for nearly two decades, and the company has become a true pioneer in this area—from sourcing ingredients for its own product lines to consistently phasing out plastic bags in its stores. When companies like this take the lead, others have to follow, no matter what industry or market they’re in. Or… community. If you have your headquarters in a city, you should think about how you can give back to the people who live there. That’s a fundamental social responsibility, regardless of what your company «does.».

 

Let’s talk about your own company. Edelman was founded by your father, Daniel, and is now the world’s largest privately held communications agency—with more than 6,000 employees in over 60 offices. You were long regarded as an expert in public relations, but you’re clearly much more than that now—a creative agency, a digital agency, a political and management consulting firm…

… and, not to mention, we also do branding! Yesterday, for example, I was at Kentucky Fried Chicken and discussed with the management team how they can expand their business and better appeal to Gen Z. The day before that, I was at Under Armour, and we discussed the launch of a new athletic shoe. From my perspective, it’s all connected: brand managers are aware of all the things you and I just talked about. And they’re wondering how the products they want to bring to market can generate attention, be perceived as useful, or bring joy. But they also need to have a feel for the social climate in which they’re «launching» their products—and that’s where the connection to Edelman comes in. I don’t want to get bogged down in what people say and do, but if we know what people think, feel, and want, we can help our clients take appropriate action—and talk about that action. That’s what we do. And that’s why we don’t want to be pigeonholed. We do what’s necessary, regardless of labels.

 

Your growth rates are proof that this principle works: In 2022—which you yourself described as a «damn good year»—your company grew by nearly thirteen percent. In 2021, growth was about fifteen percent—even though the pandemic had the world firmly in its grip at the time. And that’s not all: You consistently exceed high benchmarks for equity and diversity; the majority of your executives are women, and your workforce is becoming more multicultural every year. How do you manage to do all of this?

As far as our growth is concerned, the last two years have indeed been exceptional. We expect a certain slowdown in 2023; I would be satisfied with five or six percent growth. I believe one of the reasons for our success is that we’ve always been the little David who has to take on the big Goliath. Yes, Edelman is the world’s largest privately held communications firm—but the network agencies we face in pitches are five, seven, or ten times our size. So we have to be more agile and smarter; and we need better stones for our slingshot (laughs). As for diversity in the workforce… I have three daughters, all of whom work at the company. They’d give me a piece of their mind if I failed in this area.

 

That's a very charming way of putting it, but I'm sure there's more to your DE&I policy than that.

Yes, yes, of course. That’s a deliberate policy, and that’s exactly how it should be. I still remember one of our executive board meetings about fifteen years ago very clearly: I looked around, and there was only one «person of color» present. One! I think it was a colleague from India. And that’s when I said, «Listen, things can’t go on like this. We’re not going to continue this way. We’re going to make radical changes—and we’re going to do it within a decade.» We very openly analyzed the reasons for the lack of diversity in our workforce and then tried to address them. For example, we found that young team members with African American or Hispanic backgrounds often couldn’t find mentors within the company. As a result, after a certain amount of time, they looked for new employers. We’ve resolved that issue. The head of our U.S. business, Lisa Osborne Ross, who herself has an African American background, took the lead on this, and I am deeply grateful to her for that.

 

You have been at the helm of Edelman for nearly three decades. Yet you have never rested on your laurels; instead, you have continued to develop your company. Was that also a deliberate process, or is it part of your «entrepreneurial DNA»?

In part, this certainly stems from my father and the way he built Edelman. He was always a great innovator—for him, it came completely naturally. I take inspiration from that every day. At the same time, I’m convinced that we need to expand our work into the areas where it’s needed: influencers and social media are important to our clients, so we need to understand the trends in this field. B2B communication is important to our clients, so we need expertise in that area as well. As a result, progress practically takes care of itself.

 

So that will continue to be your strategy in the future as well?

Yes. Right now, for example, we’re very focused on how to improve communication in the healthcare and tech industries. More than twenty percent of our clients work in healthcare, and just as many are in the tech industry. Whether it’s the metaverse, AI, or mRNA—we have to explain all these innovations to the public on behalf of the companies we work for. I just had lunch with the president of the University of Chicago, and we had a very productive conversation about the gap between scientific achievements and public acceptance of those achievements. He argued that many scientists approach things from an insider’s perspective, along the lines of: «This is helpful, it’s been tested, people need to trust us.» Crystal clear, right? (laughs) But remember the skepticism surrounding the COVID vaccines… even in the midst of major crises, you first have to get some people on board. You can’t force trust—you have to build it. AstraZeneca, for example, enjoys great authority among a certain group of people—as I’ve already pointed out—but there are also people who believe the company wants to harm them. Or who are convinced that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is a corrupt, politicized organization. There are also people who simply aren’t aware that an increase in antibodies in their blood could save their lives if they’re already immunocompromised and then contract COVID-19.

 

Which brings us back to the original question: What does good PR actually mean?.

Perhaps one could say: It’s about fostering a dialogue between different groups, different people from diverse backgrounds. In science communication in particular, we play the «Air Game» on the one hand—through publications in scientific bulletins for the academic community; but we also play the «ground game»—through emotional storytelling, supported by Jeff Bridges (laughs) or by involving local dignitaries who speak with their communities.

 

Just how important is Switzerland as a market for Edelman? Since 2020, you’ve had an exclusive partnership here with the Farner agency, which essentially acts as your representative.

The Swiss have an exceptionally sophisticated understanding of communication—and of the value of the work we do. They understand the mechanisms of open discourse and debate. They recognize the value of «earned media.» And, of course, Switzerland is home to a multitude of great companies with which we have maintained or continue to maintain partnerships—such as Nestlé, Novartis, Roche, and Swiss Re. Incidentally, we also worked with Swiss Re following the attack on the World Trade Center in 2001. The discussions that Walter Kielholz, the company’s former CEO, and I had back then… that was probably one of the most complicated and challenging communication cases I’ve ever experienced.

 

May I ask for the details?

Well, Swiss Re was the reinsurance company responsible for the World Trade Center. After September 11, 2001, the company was, of course, fully prepared to fulfill all of its contractual obligations. However, the amount that Swiss Re intended to pay out was contested by the World Trade Center’s lessee. The lessee argued that the sum should be doubled because two buildings had collapsed—and not «just» one. However, since the complex was insured as a whole and not on the basis of individual buildings, Swiss Re could not meet these demands. Had it done so, it would have set a very dangerous precedent—not only for itself, but for insurance companies around the world. Walter Kielholz was well aware of the delicate situation Swiss Re found itself in: The company had to go to court and, at the same time, publicly explain that the compensation demanded was too high. Under no circumstances could the impression be given that the company was insensitive—or even ignorant—of the suffering of those affected. In the end, there was only one way out: to explain, calmly and judiciously, that contracts must be honored even in the event of major disasters. Swiss Re did just that, won the legal battle in 2006, and suffered no damage to its reputation. I just said that this was one of the most complex cases I’ve ever faced—but it’s also … the best example of why it’s so important to have the courage to tell the truth.

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Richard Edelman is the CEO of Edelman, the world’s largest independent communications firm. The company was founded in 1952 by his father, Daniel, and today employs more than 6,000 people in 66 offices across 28 countries. Richard Edelman has won every major industry award both personally and through his company—often as the first «PR expert» ever to do so.

 

 

Since mid-2022, the hype surrounding digital and hybrid customer events has noticeably subsided, according to the Federal Association for Industrial Communication (bvik) in Augsburg. What exactly is there to showcase at «hybrid» trade shows? The course of the event? The international response to this has been more than modest—in fact, it has been insufficient. «However, the two associations, AUMA and bvik, are convinced that in the future, hardly any trade show will be able to do without digital support,» states the bvik in its press release dated March 1, 2023. David von Büren, trade show director for the industrial trade shows Ble.ch, Innoteq, and Sindex at the Bernexpo Groupe, describes what this digital future of trade shows looks like: «The pandemic has proven that digital formats—and, in some cases, hybrid formats—have a tough time. Digital is a complement and an extension, but not the key.»

The trade show industry has recovered significantly worldwide and is looking forward to 2023 with optimism.

Regardless of digitalization, the trade show industry is back as a physical event. This is evident at the major leading trade shows in Germany—and in Switzerland as well. At the end of March 2023, the MCH Group launched Sustainability Days, centered around the conference and exhibition formats SmartSuisse, MUT, Re‘ Summit, and Future-Proof Infrastructure. In May, major consumer trade shows such as BEA in Bern and Luga in Lucerne will take place, along with the international trade shows Vitafoods and Ebace at Palexpo in Geneva. The Easyfairs trade shows Empack and Logistics + Automation, held at Messe Zürich in January 2023, saw a 20 percent increase in visitors compared to the previous edition of these parallel trade shows, which alternate between Bern and Zurich. «The trade fair industry has recovered significantly worldwide and is looking optimistically toward 2023,» the Association of the German Trade Fair Industry (AUMA) quotes from a UFI survey conducted in January 2023. In most markets, trade show companies expect a full recovery as early as 2023.

But the need to continue driving digitalization forward is at the top of the agenda worldwide, says UFI Managing Director Kai Hattendorf. «For us, there is no digital substitute for in-person trade shows,» says Marco Steg, CEO and Delegate of the Board at Syma Holding AG in Kirchberg. «The process goes online—offline—online. Online for communication before the trade show—offline during the trade show for in-person matchmaking—and then back online after the trade show as a follow-up to stay connected with the community you met at the event,» he says.

With this interpretation, we are close to what one might call a 365-day Mass—an idea that has been on the table long before the pandemic.

Digital Extensions, Not Replacements

Conteo has coined a term for this: the «digital meeting place.» Conteo also defines the process of digitally extending trade shows as an online-offline-online journey. Conteo’s digital meeting places are being used at an increasing number of in-person trade shows as extensions of the events (not replacements!) (see the December 2021 issue of m&k). More than 30 trade shows use Conteo as a content platform for their events, such as the AM-Expo and Swiss MedTech Expo organized by Messe Luzern, the Holz-Messe and Ilmac organized by the MCH Group, and Easyfairs trade shows such as Kuteno, where exhibitors publish trade show-specific content online rather than simply linking to their websites. «To me, it’s quite clear that the trade show theme didn’t work online—and only to a limited extent in a hybrid format. I see a trend in marketing back toward the basics—that is, media, social media, and thematic marketing,» says Björn Kempe, an internationally experienced trade show organizer at ExposAsia and a mergers and acquisitions specialist in the MICE industry (see interview). Conteo’s digital meeting places are therefore one of the best solutions for us when it comes to «hybrid» trade shows.

Strengths and Weaknesses of Hybrid Concepts

The post-COVID situation in event marketing looks different when it comes to professional development. «Online was a good and practical solution during the pandemic, when people couldn’t meet in person. In my opinion, however, a return to the way things were is no longer possible, as too many developments have since taken root. Covid brought about new forms of events. Hybrid events are sure to remain the norm when it comes to knowledge transfer,» says Carole Ramuz, owner of Brand Soul in Zurich, describing this evolution. In October 2022, the event agency Bright organized the Global Accelleron Day at Trafo Baden—the epitome of a hybrid event. Nearly 800 guests attended in person, but the event was also broadcast to 54 countries in four languages. When Accelleron Day returns, Bright co-owner Markus Walder once again recommends a hybrid format, as the client has numerous employees spread across more than 50 locations worldwide. «Bringing them all together in person would be impractical for various reasons, such as time, sustainability, and budget,» says Markus Walder.

Digital Shaper Roland Kümin from Hertenstein AG also sees strong arguments in favor of in-person events, as they offer opportunities for face-to-face interaction, networking, and personal engagement—«which cannot be replaced online.» But he encourages trade show organizers—particularly those with a global audience—to continue investing in digitalization. «I am personally convinced that the trade show and events industry must continue to drive its digital transformation in order to remain relevant. While it’s true that life doesn’t take place solely in the virtual space, it’s important for the industry to leverage the benefits of digital technology to enhance the overall experience for exhibitors and visitors.»

Conclusion

When we talk about «hybrid trade shows»—or, more accurately, digital extensions of trade shows—we need to move away from the idea that digital technology, such as artificial intelligence or virtual reality, can create a quasi-digital parallel world capable of replacing a physical trade show. Even the metaverse, according to experts, will not be able to replicate such a world for perhaps another ten years. Until then, the key figures (see box) speak in favor of trade shows as a medium and, more specifically, for the business world’s demonstrable need for in-person events.

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REQUESTED

«Millions of Data Points: But Trade Show Recovery Won't Come Until 2025»

Urs Seiler spoke with Björn Kempe, founding partner of Arena Mice Funds, about the future of the trade show industry.

Urs Seiler: Björn Kempe, what's on your mind right now regarding the international trade show industry—and what's keeping you up at night?

Björn Kempe What’s on my mind the most right now is seeing how many great people the events industry has lost worldwide. The old-school trade show organizers are gone, and in many companies there are new people who, in my view, are only partially qualified. Political and economic issues also play a role in Europe—I sleep much better in Asia or the Middle East.

 

And what keeps you going?

Right now, I’m thinking a lot about how we can best engage communities. To me, it’s very clear: it didn’t work online—and only to a limited extent in a hybrid format. I see a trend in marketing back toward the basics: traditional media, social media, and thematic marketing. In my view, the events industry needs to address the issue of data analysis so that marketing and sales can be better aligned. The many trade show organizers in Europe sit on millions of data points—but these are only used once a year. I don’t think that’s right, and something needs to change here.

 

UFI in Paris sees a renaissance in the trade show industry across the regions. In which regions do you see it?

I think that, given the multitude of problems, the trade show industry won’t fully recover until 2025. For England, the Near and Middle East, and Southeast Asia, however, I am very bullish. In these regions, many organizers are already returning to 100 percent capacity this year. Therefore, a full recovery should be complete by 2024, and growth rates over the next five years should be above average.

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Back to the future

The percentage of trade show companies reporting «normal» operations rose from 30 percent in January 2022 to 72 percent in December 2022 and is expected to reach 80 percent in June 2023. Only 26 percent—compared to 44 percent and 63 percent in previous studies—believe there will be fewer international in-person trade shows and fewer attendees overall. Fifty-seven percent—compared to 73 percent and 80 percent—believe there is a shift toward hybrid events and more digital elements at events.

 

 

m&k: Abigail Posner, you studied anthropology at Harvard, worked for several global advertising networks, and have now been part of Google’s creative team for more than eleven years, five of which as head of the «Creative Works» department in the U.S. What is the common thread that connects the various roles in your career?

Abigail Posner: At its core—if you boil it down to the essentials—anthropology is about the question of why people do what they do. Why do they eat this, wear that, or talk about topic X or topic Y? Why do they behave one way when they’re with friends and another way when they’re at work? Anthropology seeks to decipher what makes people tick. The basic assumption is that there is a logic, a purpose behind everything—and if you break through the surface and make an effort to dig deeper, you’ll gain a wealth of amazing insights.

 

Let's start by talking about how you used this in advertising.

At the agencies where I worked as a brand strategist, I tried to figure out why consumers buy a Coca-Cola, a tech gadget, or tickets to an amusement park. But not just in the sense of «they like the taste,» «they like the design,» or «they want to have fun.» I wanted to understand what triggers these purchasing decisions in people—and what «enrichment» of their lives the products or experiences they spend money on represent. What they hope to gain from them. What hopes, dreams, and memories they associate with them. This allowed me to advise our clients from a completely different perspective—to help them forge a genuine connection with their «target audience»—and to tell better stories. I was able to continue doing this in my work at Google, and quite successfully at that, which I sometimes find a bit funny myself (laughs). Because when I started here, I thought I wouldn’t last a week.

At its core, anthropology is about the question of why people do what they do. It seeks to unravel what makes us tick.

 

Why is that?

I was thrilled by the opportunity to work at Google—and jumped at it right away. But then I started to have some doubts: What do I really know about technology? What do I know about selling tech products? I’m an advertising strategist and maybe even a… real nerd when it comes to anthropology (laughs). At the same time, I’d made an observation: I’d realized that the company—even more than a decade ago—possessed a fantastic treasure trove of data. They knew «what» people were doing with Google’s technology, but the specific motivation—the «why»—of the users wasn’t always clear. All sorts of questions were on the table: «What kind of connection do people feel toward their smartphones? What does it mean that cat videos are so popular on YouTube? Why do people want to use augmented reality—what benefits do they see in this technology?» I believed these questions needed to be addressed, and Google shared my assessment. So I began working with various internal teams on these questions—and assembled a group of very smart anthropologists to help me. Like our colleagues in archaeology, we went on field trips… but in our case, the task was to uncover the profound, emotionally charged, and often beautiful relationship that people have built with digital technology, tools, and cyberspace. We named the project accordingly: «Humanizing Digital.».

 

You just made a distinction that lies at the heart of your conceptual framework and that you often discuss in keynotes, podcasts, and interviews: the distinction between the «what» and the «why» of technology and digitalization, respectively. Could we go into a little more detail on that?

Perhaps I can best explain this with an example. Take a look at your smartphone: At first glance, it’s just a small computer that you can slip into your pocket and carry around with you. First, brilliant engineers developed this mini-computer, equipping it with a touchscreen and a high-resolution camera, and so on. Then came clever developers who programmed apps that let you read your emails, take notes, or text your friends. All of that is part of the «what.» But neither the hardware nor the software I’ve described has any inherent meaning. We, the users, must give them meaning, and that is the «why.» We use technology, for example, to engage in «place-making,» and in doing so, we imbue it with meaning.

What kind of attachment do people feel toward their smartphones? Why are cat videos on YouTube so popular?

 

What does «place-making» mean?

We always want to feel a sense of belonging; the feeling of being at home in the world. We have an urge to «get familiar» with our surroundings, because that grounds us and gives us a sense of direction… and that’s why we use technology and the digital space to quickly and easily engage in «place-making» even in places we’ve never been before. I live in the heart of Manhattan, and when my Google office was still at Chelsea Market—I’m in Soho now—I could walk to work. One day I was walking through the Hell’s Kitchen neighborhood, where one restaurant follows another. The sheer number of places to eat there means that, in your perception, everything blends together—almost like… wallpaper, a painting in the background. But suddenly I noticed a restaurant I’d never noticed before, one that somehow stood out. I became curious. I pulled out my phone and Googled what they served there, who the head chef was, and what the menu looked like. I read reviews and looked at photos that other users had posted. Then I spontaneously walked in and had a light meal. Just a few minutes earlier, I hadn’t even known this place existed, and now I was sitting there, eating a dish that strangers had recommended to me online, and feeling right at home. That’s place-making for you. And beyond that, it’s an opportunity to strengthen or forge new connections with fellow human beings.

 

… if you «share» the restaurant online yourself?

Yes. I take a photo of my breakfast and post it on social media. And then I get comments. One of my friends has been there several times and writes, «Oh, what you ate is my favorite dish!»; or a coworker chimes in: «That’s the restaurant where my boyfriend proposed to me.» All of this makes the place even more meaningful to me and deepens my connection to the people who respond to my post. The reason I’m telling you this is that it’s generally frowned upon to «see the world through our phones.» There’s always someone who says, «Put that thing away for a minute—just enjoy the moment.» But what if our phones actually help us enjoy the moment even more?

We always want to feel a sense of belonging—the feeling of being at home in the world. Technology can make that easier.

 

There will probably always be people who are skeptical of technology.

And that’s okay. Skepticism is okay. Throughout history, new inventions, discoveries, and technologies have repeatedly emerged, which we have then integrated into our lives—whether it be fire, the smelting furnace, the printing press, or even the computer. Some people have used these things to cause harm; and that is why a few others were—and remain—skeptical of innovation. But the anthropological view of the world is fundamentally positive: In most cases, people use what is available to them to improve their lives. They are generally benevolent, and so they embrace these new tools and put them to good use. Fire is then no longer merely fire—a force of nature with destructive potential—but also something that keeps us warm at night; something that makes food edible and water drinkable. Again: New technology always involves risks; things go wrong, and mistakes are made. But these are isolated incidents. And they are by no means so serious as to undermine the positive potential of innovation.

 

The seemingly simple act of researching a restaurant online and then sharing the experience virtually with friends and acquaintances already involves place-making, fostering relationships …, but it also includes an element of creativity, doesn't it?

That’s right. Because when I take a picture of my food, I apply a filter, crop it, and express my aesthetic vision through it. There’s a whole range of things I can do with it. When I mention this to a Keynote audience, people often say: «Oh, that’s right! I do that, too!» But they hardly ever stop to think about just how meaningful what they’re doing actually is. The seemingly trivial, small, everyday things we do carry so much meaning.

 

Technology, then, serves not only as a means of creating familiarity and connection, but also as a way to show the world who we are … and how we want to be seen through what we create.

Yes. We can post something—whatever it may be—and people give feedback. Then we respond to that feedback—or at least reflect on their reactions. That’s what I call «self-making.» Let’s say I get a haircut and post a picture of it online. Then I get comments and an immediate sense of whether the new look suits me. Selfies are much less a sign of vanity than an opportunity to view ourselves through the mirror of the digital world. If you’d prefer a more intellectually sophisticated example of “self-making,” take a podcast: You have an idea, record your thoughts, and publish it. Some people will love it; others will criticize you for it. Either way, you get a sense of what the majority of listeners like, as well as the opportunity to adapt if you want to.

 

But that also puts you out there a bit—makes you vulnerable, doesn't it?

That’s exactly why I call it «Self-Making.» Because if you’re not vulnerable, you’re not open. And if you’re not open, you’re not authentic. There may always be a few bullies who post a nonsensical comment under a photo or badmouth a podcast—I’m not talking about honest criticism, but comments aimed at belittling someone’s efforts or hurting them. But there’s only one proper response to that: «So what?» (laughs) This isn’t an apology for the behavior of those people, but there have always been «bullies» in the schoolyard, too. And if we’d let them stop us from going to school, learning, and growing… what kind of world would we be living in then? Everyone should take full advantage of all the tools and technologies—all the opportunities—that they want to use. I always want to shout out to people: “Go for it, create something! Don’t let anyone take that away from you!”

 

We’ve already heard numerous examples of the «why» behind technology and digitalization. There’s one thing we haven’t discussed yet—and I particularly like this one. During a keynote speech in California, you mentioned how much implicit meaning is contained in sharing funny videos and memes …

Yes, you could categorize that under «Connection,» but let’s explore it a little further. When I send someone a video that I like and that made me laugh, the message isn’t just, «Video! Check it out!» The message is actually: «There’s something that made me happy, and I want you to be happy too. I also think I know you well enough to realize that we have the same sense of humor. And last but not least, I think you’re smart enough to understand what I’m trying to show you.»

 

That’s a very nuanced way to find common ground. Since you’ve worked in advertising for a long time: Can brands take advantage of this as well?

Yes, they can—and they should definitely give it a try. Marketing has evolved tremendously over time. For a long time, it was very function-oriented, but then there was room for emotion and entertainment. I’ll never forget how my first boss at a major agency told me, «Never underestimate the value of a joke.» Because when it lands, that’s the best proof that you’ve understood the other person on multiple levels. This ties in with what a good friend of mine said recently: «We really have to make a serious effort to be funny.» That hits the nail on the head. Of course, playing with emotions and humor isn’t that simple for brands—because you have to have a very precise sense of people’s nature, their respective cultures, and perfect timing. But if you can pull it off, you’ll be rewarded with enormous competitive advantages. When I work with companies today, I always advise them: Don’t «over-engineer» your KPIs and channels; instead, do some «reverse-engineering» and think about very basic human traits, needs, and desires. Address the «humanity» of your customers—that’s all they need.

 

I like the idea that technology and digitalization don’t distract us from «being human,» but rather expand what makes us who we are. How will generative AI contribute to our «humanity»—how will it «expand» our lives?

It’s interesting that you ask me that! I’m currently co-authoring a scientific article with a Harvard researcher… I can’t reveal too much about the content of the article yet, but I can tell you a bit about artificial intelligence in this context. Last Thursday, I was at the airport, had some time to kill, and started experimenting with «Bard,» Google’s conversational AI. I asked the program to test my hypothesis about a specific trait of leaders—and to look for examples of leaders who exhibit that trait. That helped me clarify my ideas for the paper. It’s a great starting point from which I can move forward.

 

Generative AI is an incredibly sophisticated tool—and yet, it remains just a tool. As an anthropologist and tech executive, do you sometimes wonder what might come next? Would a perfect AI—one that can no longer be distinguished from human intelligence—require us to redefine what it means to be human?

First of all: There are still so many mysteries; so much we don’t know, for example, about how our brains work. I’m by no means an expert in neuroscience, but I can tell you with certainty: the human mind has yet to be deciphered. So if one day there were a technology that were more creative, more innovative, and generally smarter than we are—I think I’d be surprised at first, but I’d also be fascinated. After all, to qualify as such a technology, AI would have to have understood all the mysteries we have yet to discover—otherwise, it wouldn’t be superior to our intellect. However, I don’t see any program that would be up to this task; and as such, it would take quite some time—and further development—before I even begin to think about this, let alone worry about it.

 

So the skepticism toward generative AI that’s being expressed so often these days is also unfounded?

We were talking earlier about skepticism toward innovation. It’s as old as humanity itself. My mother was a professor of chemistry and dean at Wellesley College in Massachusetts. And she still remembers today how her colleagues protested the introduction of calculators: «These machines are supposed to do our calculations for us now? What are we supposed to do then? And what assignments will we give our students?» Suddenly, academics had to rethink what it meant to challenge their students intellectually. There are worse things, right? (laughs) Another example: More than two decades ago, the internet made the entire body of knowledge humanity has ever possessed accessible to billions of people—but our judgment is still needed. The internet has become our most important resource, and it has improved and enriched our lives in many ways … but it hasn’t made us obsolete. A few days ago, I read an interesting article in a magazine that suggested the widespread use of artificial intelligence could lead to a renewed interest in the humanities—because in the future, we’ll once again need more people who can do what artificial intelligence is incapable of doing: people who understand the aforementioned subtleties of humor; people who connect dots that have never been connected before; people who show empathy through storytelling. AI is currently incapable of all of this.

 

So, are we looking forward to a bright future?

Maybe I’m being naive. No—actually, I’m pretty sure I am a little naive (laughs). I don’t know what lies ahead. Who does? Even when it comes to AI, there will be people who try to abuse the power of artificial intelligence. But: Most of us will adapt to the existence of this technology in a positive way, will enrich the use of AI with personal meaning, and AI will, in turn, help us move forward. My son just wrote a college application essay on astrophysics—he’s fascinated by the subject because there’s so much in space that we still can’t see, know, or understand. Whether it’s our own brains or the universe… we’ll need all the help we can get to unravel the mysteries of our time.

 

When I listen to you, I imagine a world in which artificial intelligence is to our brains what robotic exoskeletons are to our bodies: something that doesn’t hinder us, but rather enhances our existing capabilities and enables us to tackle more challenging tasks.

I like this idea. A smart AI that gathers, summarizes, or breaks down information from all corners of the internet can be immensely helpful in tackling almost any intellectual task we undertake. If we acknowledge history’s value as a guide, then I’m not worried about the future. After all, history teaches us that with every technological advancement, we’ve become more successful, more creative, happier, and healthier in the medium term. With every achievement, we’ve climbed another rung on the ladder of evolution. I’m convinced that this will be the case this time as well. And we can even have a lot of fun in the process.

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Abigail Posner is the director of the U.S. division of «Creative Works,» Google’s interface with agencies and advertisers. Together with her team, she advises Google’s clients on how to make the best use of the company’s tools for their own purposes. Before joining the tech giant, Posner held positions including Strategy Director at Publicis New York and Director of Brand Strategy at DDB Worldwide. A graduate in anthropology, she is also a globally sought-after keynote speaker and serves on several boards of directors.

m&k Your company offers both the sale of IT hardware and various IT services. How important is digital signage in your portfolio?

Severin Burkart Within our Business Solutions department, I work with seven team colleagues in the Display Solutions area. We focus on the three topics of Digital Signage, Modern Meeting and Modern Education. Digital signage was the first cornerstone of our department about ten years ago and is therefore one of our core competencies, which we are constantly expanding.

When the keyword signage displays comes up, the first thing that often comes to mind is OOH screens in public spaces. But signage solutions are just as important for indoor spaces, aren't they?

Absolutely. We notice that many companies are rethinking internal communication with employees and visitors. Digital signage makes it possible, among other things, to show daily and location-related news for employees in real time, to greet visitors personally and to make it easier for them to find their way.

In which areas are indoor signage solutions most commonly used?

Many companies know that the fast and efficient flow of information to employees is essential. Since traditional channels such as e-mail, intranet and notice boards no longer bring the necessary attention, we currently implement most projects in the area of employee communication.

Can you give us a few specific case examples where digital signage facilitates communication within companies?

We have many and very interesting examples, so I'll try to keep this short. For example, Swiss Life Select AG uses digital signage at all of its 20 or so locations in Switzerland for gamification to promote the performance of its sales staff. Another customer, which is active in medical production, uses the displays we installed to optimize the planning of 24-hour shift operations on the store floor principle. In addition, the digital displays are used in a large logistics and returns center for quality optimization and for the latest guidelines, so that all employees can be informed immediately and easily about new regulations and requirements.

Are there any exciting innovations in the field to keep an eye on in the coming months and years?

In the field of "Green IT", the Swiss company Roomz, with which we maintain close contact, is one of the pioneers. They offer digital room signage systems that are based on e-ink and are thus extremely energy efficient. The company recently took the next step in this direction with an optional solar panel that enables complete autonomy from conventional power sources.

About the person

Severin Burkart is Junior Project Manager Display Solutions at Bechtle direct AG. The company is one of the leading Swiss IT providers for commercial customers and stands for innovative solutions in both the hardware and services sectors.

More information:

The emotional state deep inside is something hardly anyone likes to talk about—especially when things aren’t quite as they might be. But how do you get people to express their feelings—and seek help in time when they need it? The approach taken by the Croatian insurance company Croatia Insurance was unusual: Using digital City-Lights, the company gained insight into the emotional lives of passersby and offered support when needed. With the help of AI software, the «Anxiety Meter» was able to measure people’s anxiety levels. For five seconds, passersby allowed the digital billboard to analyze their facial expressions, and shortly afterward, they were shown their individual anxiety level based on a combination of eight emotions. The key feature: If their emotional state wasn’t so good, they received a referral for a free screening along with contact information.

Digital signage is everywhere

Digital advertising platforms that know how you’re feeling? What sounds like a pipe dream is already a reality—and just one of many examples that show how versatile the possibilities of digital signage already are today. After all, this medium is now much more than just a screen. And not just at train stations, fast-food restaurants, or airports. But simply everywhere: on the tram, in the office, at the gym, at an art exhibition, at a trade show, on the mountain, in a hotel. No matter where—the medium delivers content in real time, engages people, can support and even replace staff, and creates experiences. And that’s what matters more than ever in communication today. «With digital signage, people can experience things they’re only familiar with from their private lives—but on a much larger scale and in a much better way,» says Philipp Hiese, project manager at Expoformer, the expert in trade show booths, exhibition solutions, and advertising displays. Just a few weeks ago, the company expanded its show center in Bülach to include a digital area—where it impressively demonstrates what digital signage can look like today: «Moving images are nice, but they’re actually nothing new,» says Hiese, «because there’s much more to digital signage than just videos.»

Digital advertising platforms that know how you're feeling? What sounds like a pipe dream is already a reality.

Take the possibility of interaction, for example: a form of communication that customers have long been accustomed to—and that companies now take for granted. That’s why Expoformer developed an interactive game for the Zug Police Department that lets trade show visitors virtually race down the highway in a patrol car. What’s fun for the audience also has an important educational benefit: while playing, users learn how an emergency lane works.

In combination with other media

Digital signage is also effective when used in conjunction with other media. «For years, we’ve been working to integrate our digital signage systems with as many other sources and media as possible,» says Marc Menz, head of marketing at Screenimage. At the top of Menz and his team’s agenda right now is an employee app that allows staff to access digital signage content from anywhere, not just in the office. «This greatly expands the reach of the content,» says Menz. Conversely, the screens can also tease new app content. However, smartphones are increasingly replacing touchscreens, according to Kilchenmann: «Through interaction, viewers can transfer content to their smartphones or even influence the content on the digital signage system,» says Micha Lehmann, Head of Business Development.

Vendors are also focusing on sensor technology this year: This makes it conceivable, for example, that there will no longer be a person at the reception desk—instead, a friendly screen will greet visitors. By using sensors, content can be played only once someone enters the room. Guests can check in and order a coffee right away using a touchscreen.

Cloud-based digital signage services are also a growing trend in the market—for example, at Unity Systems, a specialized Swiss cloud provider for digital signage and collaboration infrastructure, which is launching two new services in this area this year: «Screenplay.ch» offers digital signage users cloud services for various software solutions designed to manage displays and their content. And «teamworks.swiss» provides dedicated video conferencing solutions from various providers.

Relevant to the viewers

With all these innovations, however, it’s not just about the technology—it’s primarily about what’s displayed on the screens. «Digital signage is successful when viewers are genuinely interested in the content being shown,» says Micha Lehmann. Programmatic advertising also helps in this regard, ensuring that target audiences no longer see rigid loops but are shown only what might interest them (see the box featuring the best-case scenario for Raclette Suisse).

One thing is clear: Digital signage is a growth market. Screens are becoming smarter, the value for money is improving, processes are becoming more secure—and more and more providers are offering more sustainable, energy-efficient solutions. Kilchenmann recommends modern, high-quality, energy-efficient LED displays; sensors that allow screens to adjust their brightness based on ambient light and turn off when no one is nearby; and timers for nighttime use. And the Messerli Group, to which Expoformer belongs, has built one of the largest solar power plants in the Wil region of the canton of Zurich, from which customers can draw electricity for their systems. A smart move that proves: this medium is keeping up with the times.

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Here's how Raclette Suisse is leveraging the innovative possibilities of digital signage

Traditional Product – Innovative Communication: Raclette Suisse is known for its smart use of digital signage and digital out-of-home advertising. During the World Cup, for example, the company utilized various screens at select point-of-sale stores, tailoring the content to the availability of Raclette products in each store. The highlight: The dynamic campaign was coordinated with the Swiss national team’s schedule and results. «Tomorrow is match day,» the message read. And later: «Too bad the Swiss national team didn’t win.» «Raclette cheese has a long and rich Swiss tradition, yet it’s essential to respond to changing consumer needs and take advantage of positive trends and new media,» explains Diana Penzkofer, marketing project manager at Raclette Suisse.

Smart targeting based on sociodemographic criteria is another advantage of digital signage that Raclette Suisse has skillfully leveraged: A campaign in Spar stores was only displayed when the live-tracking feature detected that a person from the predefined target group—based on age and gender—was in the immediate vicinity. «An exciting opportunity when it comes to minimizing wasted reach or engaging potential customers at the point of sale—all while using resources cost-effectively.»

Another advantage that Raclette Suisse values in digital screens: sustainability. «Whereas flyers used to be distributed more frequently and posters were printed, today dynamic messages in the form of short stories flicker across rewritable displays that can be updated quickly and do not require long lead times for complex production.»

 

Marcel Proust's novel "In Search of Lost Time" is an exploration of human memory - and the factors that set it in motion. Thus, the work also contains probably one of the most sensual (in the truest sense of the word) descriptions of what can happen to one while enjoying a simple sweet: The protagonist dips a sand tart, called a "madeleine" in France, into a sip of tea - and suddenly feels transported back to his own childhood: "All at once the memory was there," he notes. He continues, "The taste was that of that little piece of a madeleine that my aunt Léonie offered me after dipping it in her black or lime blossom tea."

Tastes and scents can penetrate the depths of our subconscious.

Yes, tastes and scents have a remarkable property: they can penetrate the depths of our subconscious and evoke memories we didn't even know existed. This property makes scents and flavors a powerful marketing tool. In fact, the involvement of all five senses is already part of the agenda in marketing; yet it is talked about rather little. So what is the secret of sensory marketing?

A powerful instrument

First of all, it is no secret that sensory marketing is extremely effective. More and more studies confirm that brand loyalty and purchase probability increase proportionally to the dimensionality of the touchpoint. In neuroeconomics, one even speaks of the "law of multisensory amplification": the more sensory channels are stimulated, the faster and more intensively an impression is processed. Numerous practical examples can be cited to illustrate this: A classic is the 1995 experiment by Alan R. Hirsch, "Effects of Ambient Odors on Slot-Machine Usage in a Las Vegas Casino." The study recorded an increase in revenue of about 45 percent for slot machines in an aromatized environment versus a neutral-smelling atmosphere. The examples can be continued at will: Think of the perfumes and carefully chosen color palettes in hotel interiors, or the smell of fresh-cut grass in sporting goods stores, customer letters with the scent of sunscreen, tasting morsels in supermarkets, or the feel of drinking bottles like Orangina ...

Multi- and intermodal game

According to the law of multisensory amplification, these marketing strategies owe their effectiveness to a multi- and intermodal interaction. Let's think of the scene from Proust's novel: it's not just the sight that brings the memory to life, but also the smell, taste and consistency of the pastry mixed with tea. The combination must be right to achieve the desired result. Artificially creating this coherence is the great challenge in multisensory marketing. If the interplay is not successful, confusion and sensory overload will result. It is therefore to be hoped that research in neurology and psychology will soon develop more precise models for the design of multidimensional sensory messages: knowledge which, in addition to marketing, could also become relevant in other contexts such as learning psychology, psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, or in the medical treatment of pain and sleep disorders, for example.

Why are potato chips bigger than your mouth? So that it really cracks when you bite!

It must be taken into account that a modal-specific stimulus can suggest or influence impressions of the other four sensory stimuli: Scents or sounds can trigger color impressions, and colors in turn can trigger smells and tastes. Therefore, for example, brand names, packaging sizes and materials, and eating sounds can influence the evaluation of a taste. Why else are potato chips bigger than your mouth? So that it really cracks when you bite!

Subtlety of the stimuli

Another recipe for success in multisensory marketing has to do with the subtlety of the stimuli and their direct access to the emotional world. Visual sensory impressions account for around 83 percent of perceptions, acoustic stimuli 11 percent. These two senses, which are most prominent anyway, are also in the foreground in traditional marketing. The utilization of the visual and acoustic communication market is therefore high. No wonder, then, if traditional advertising is no longer perceived properly or is even perceived as annoying.

The situation is quite different for the sense of smell: It comprises only 3.5 percent of conscious perception, haptics and the sense of taste only 1.5 percent and 1 percent, respectively. This does not mean that these senses work less precisely, but that their stimuli are largely taken in unconsciously. You may be familiar with the image of the iceberg floating on the sea, with most of it lying underwater: The magnitude of what is happening beneath the surface of consciousness is enormous. It is estimated that at least 70 percent of purchasing decisions are made unconsciously. The possibility of directing the unconscious through sensory marketing therefore promises uncanny potential.

A promising candidate

The sense of smell is the most promising candidate for sensory marketing. Scientists Richard Axel and Linda Buck, who were awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2004, have shown, among other things, that the human memory can remember around 10,000 smells, but only 200 colors. It is also known that the olfactory center has direct connections to memory and the limbic system. This is the brain region where unconscious feelings arise. Therefore, smells are closely linked to emotions and memories: The smell of madeleines dipped in lime blossom tea or the perfume of your first great love - just a whiff of it can vividly recall past experiences, people and feelings in all their details. Thus, the sense of smell forms the perfect instrument for brand recognition.

Smells are not only excellent carriers of memories and emotions. They are also particularly effective for marketing because, depending on their intensity, their persuasive effect goes unnoticed. In fact, unlike other sensory perceptions such as sight and hearing, the impulses of the sense of smell do not usually pass through the thalamus, the gateway to consciousness. Perhaps this is one reason why they are so little talked about: Fragrances can influence our emotional state without us noticing.

Ethical issues

Because sensory marketing often goes unnoticed, it also raises ethical questions. Olfactory marketing in particular is suspected of interfering with free decision-making. After all, what takes place below the threshold of consciousness cannot be critically evaluated. Should fragrances be designed in such a way that they are actively perceived as advertising? Here the problem arises that the effectiveness would probably decrease if the sensory measure were evaluated as such. Once a person realizes that they are being manipulated in making their decisions, they are more likely to think unfavorably about the source of the steering. But are pleasant scents, crisp chips, friendly staff, and coherent interior design experienced as manipulation at all?

Because sensory marketing often goes unnoticed, it also raises ethical issues.

The secret of sensory marketing lies in the influence of the intermodal interaction of different sensory stimuli on the unconscious. Its great potential makes it an influential but highly complex advertising tool, which will establish itself with further research steps in the field of multisensory marketing. But growing knowledge in this field brings responsibilities. After all, the unconscious is also the home of a personality, storage place of childhood memories and censoring instance of the deepest desires and most abysmal thoughts. Sometimes these materialize in smells and tastes, and when we inhale, they blossom. Even if we were to lose all memory, even "after the death of men and the ruin of things," we learn from Marcel Proust, "then, as the only ones, more delicate but more permanent, more insubstantial, more constant and more faithful, the smell and the taste persist, to remember for a long time, like souls, to wait, to hope, to carry above the debris of all that remains, on their almost intangible droplet, without yielding, the immense edifice of memory."

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EXAMPLES

These brands use sensory marketing

Visa

When paying with their Visa card, customers in the USA hear a special sound at the end - one that Visa has been working on for years. It completes the purchase and conveys security and familiarity.

Singapore Airlines

Singapore Airlines flight attendants not only wear uniforms in a color combination based on traditional patterns; they also wear a perfume (rose, lavender and citrus) that is highly recognizable to travelers.

Apple

The design of the Apple boutiques is a masterstroke, both visually and haptically - the stores should be perceived as "clean" and "smart" as the company's products.

Starbucks

From the very beginning, the American café chain has required its branches to grind coffee beans on site - so that it smells like fresh coffee at all times and visitors are encouraged to consume it.

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Would you like to learn more about sensory marketing? Then we recommend "Customer Sense" by the American professor Aradhna Krishna: a standard work that is appreciated by academics as well as in practice and excellently describes the game with our five senses in marketing.

 

Going grocery shopping «quickly»—to me, that’s a contradiction in terms. «Quickly» doesn’t mean anything to me anymore, because more than 30,000 products are vying for my attention at the supermarket. Thank goodness I don’t live in the U.S.—over there, there are easily more than 45,000 items lurking on supermarket shelves!

And all these products and brands are trying to win me over—their goal is to secure a spot in my shopping cart. They’re competing for my attention with bright, eye-catching colors, innovative packaging, promising claims, and superlatives! A laundry detergent makes my laundry ultra-white, ultra-soft, and is even sustainable. A facial cleanser cleanses deeply and gently. And chips aren’t just chips—they’re crunchy and made with Alpine salt and canola oil.

Do brands tend to catch my attention more the more product claims they use? Or does it eventually become too much of a good thing?

Marketing research has examined various products in this context: shampoos, muesli, the slogans of restaurants and ice cream shops, and even those of politicians. According to the Latin proverb «Omne trium es perfectum,» three-word slogans are the most persuasive to consumers. And this magic of the number three can also be seen in other areas of life: it signals happiness and success, stands for perfection, and religions also work with it—for example, with the concept of the Trinity. So what happens after the fourth claim? Are we, as consumers, simply overwhelmed by it?

Being overwhelmed is only part of the explanation, because starting with the fourth claim, particularly critical consumers start to take notice. Most consumers are well aware that product claims are designed to influence them and encourage them to buy. They know they’re being played by marketing and adopt a skeptical stance: Can a single product really offer so many benefits? Isn’t this completely exaggerated? And, consequently, is this product really the best choice for me? Three claims, on the other hand, still give these consumers a sense of completeness, conviction, and comfort. The advice to brands is clear: no more than three product claims per product.

However, that doesn't really improve my day-to-day reality, since—in theory—I'm still exposed to 30,000 items × 3 product claims = 90,000 product claims at the supermarket. I guess that leaves only the discount store!

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Prof. Dr. Johanna Gollnhofer is an associate professor of marketing and one of the co-directors of the Institute for Marketing and Customer Insight at the University of St. Gallen (IMC-HSG). In our magazine, she writes monthly about exciting, sensational, or curious marketing studies from around the world. This month’s article is based on this paper.

m&k: Your «The League of Leading Ladies» conference will take place again in June at the Grand Resort Bad Ragaz. Why is this THE event for women to find inspiration, network, and simply have a good time?

Sandra-Stella Triebl: There are certainly many opportunities to find inspiration. However, our League of Leading Ladies Conference is one of the few events that offers insights and inspiration for both the mind and the heart. Most traditional business conferences rely on lecture-style presentations, which allow for little interaction. We, on the other hand, require all our keynote speakers to be present throughout the entire conference and thus accessible to our attendees. Furthermore, rather than traditional presentations, we feature interactive talks where I engage in conversation with the experts and where questions can be asked at any time. The whole event is thus designed to be as participatory and interactive as possible. And finally, our conference is limited to a maximum of 200 people. That’s the number of guests at which we, as organizers, feel most comfortable. It’s a kind of sweet spot for us: you get the feeling that you’re part of a big, cool group—but it still feels like a big family gathering. It’s neither anonymous nor impersonal, which can often be the case at many large conferences. And as you rightly point out, you can simply have a good time here because the atmosphere among the attendees is just unbelievably great. We value one another and treat each other with kindness; we grow from and with one another without always having to agree. “We agree to disagree,” as the saying goes. And precisely because we’ve been coming together at the conference this way for years, a wonderful atmosphere has developed. Everyone is welcome here—no matter what industry they’re in, what age they are, or what nationality they have. I always find it particularly fascinating to observe how much people have to say to one another in a business context, even though they work in different industries—or even though some participants are 40 years apart in age. Ultimately, it’s precisely this exchange outside one’s own bubble that’s so important for sustained growth.

 

How does the unique venue you've been choosing for the conference for several years contribute to its success?

The location is key for us because we have a very clear vision of how the conference should unfold so that we can create exactly the atmosphere we have in mind. We spent the first few years at the Victoria-Jungfrau Grand Hotel & Spa in Interlaken, where we established the conference, and have since continued to develop it at the Grand Resort Bad Ragaz. We form partnerships with hotels that often go beyond standard business practices. It always takes a whole village to successfully host a conference. Accordingly, we select our partners with great care, because every single member of the staff is needed to make a conference truly exceptional. And that has generally become very challenging to find.

 

How difficult—or perhaps how easy—is it to secure sponsors for this event? Does it take a lot of persuasion, or are LLL’s causes a welcome way for companies to position themselves?

We’ve also shared friendships—some dating back years—with our sponsors, and I’m grateful for that. Since the founding of «Ladies Drive,» we’ve invested in one thing above all else: sustainable and genuine relationships. They are the foundation of our success across the board. We nurture these relationships with the members of our business clubs, such as the League of Leading Ladies, as well as with our sponsoring partners. Of course, there are occasional shifts in strategy among our partners, and we may go our separate ways in business for a while. But that doesn’t mean we cut off contact or no longer value each other. As an entrepreneur, I think long-term and simply know that a sponsor can’t stay by our side for 20 years. That’s just part of the business. But if you maintain a good relationship with one another, showing mutual respect—even when you don’t have an active project underway—that in turn lays the foundation for whatever the future may bring. And speaking of “liking”: I like all of our sponsors, and we’re working together to make a difference so that this conference will be a remarkable experience for everyone involved.

 

The Women Empowering Award is also presented as part of the LLL. What makes this award special, and how can a woman win it?

This award is a nomination-based prize—you can nominate yourself or another woman, and the deadline is May 1, 2023. What sets this award apart is that we honor women who advocate for other women—women who are not usually in the public spotlight. Many women accomplish an incredible amount behind the scenes, so to speak—and it is precisely these women we want to put in the spotlight for one evening and celebrate together. For me, this award is also an important symbol, especially in these times. A symbol that it’s worth standing up for others. We all talk about collaboration and communities—but first, we have to build them. Building these communities is about trust—and that, in turn, takes a great deal of time. We’re all called upon to take the time to build trusting relationships and to applaud those who do so with dedication.

 

The conference’s theme is «Post-Traumatic Growth.» It’s an impressive title that evokes associations on both the individual and societal levels. Why did you choose it?

Right from the start of the pandemic, it was clear to us: This will be a huge challenge for everyone, and it won’t leave us unscathed. In general, we are living in a time that is testing us in ways we could never have imagined—and on multiple levels. The challenges we face, both personally and professionally, are numerous. The complexity of these problems has increased, leaving many of us not just challenged but overwhelmed. At the same time, we’re all expected to be strong leaders. That’s not always so easy. Apart from that, we’ve all likely experienced one trauma or another. And research shows that it’s not just the well-known PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) that exists, but also PTG (post-traumatic growth). We believe that it can be helpful for all of us to know and learn the tools for post-traumatic growth—because, and this is what I find particularly exciting: post-traumatic growth can be learned and is a matter of practice. And last but not least, it’s also a topic that is very close to my heart. I’ve had to endure several traumatic experiences in my life—and each time, I reached a point where I had to decide whether what I’d just gone through would destroy me and break me—or whether I could somehow manage to grow from it. And that “somehow” became my greatest strength, my secret weapon, because today I know how to pull myself out of those situations. Accordingly, I hope that as many other people as possible can experience and learn this as well, because it gives you an incredible amount of courage and strength for the future.

 

Tell us a little about the speakers you’ve invited. What fascinates you about Maria Sirois, Sorelle Amore, Dominnique Karetsos, and—arguably the most prominent name—Waris Dirie?

They have all experienced personal trauma—and they have all used it as an opportunity to grow. Maria Sirois is also one of the pioneers of research in the United States in the field of post-traumatic growth. She also has a gift for sharing her knowledge in a practical way. Sorelle Amore is one of the most successful digital nomads—the Australian native runs several YouTube channels and has millions of followers around the world. Dominnique Karetsos left her home country of South Africa due to a traumatic experience and went on to achieve global success in London with her current company, The Healthy Pleasure Group. And the story of Waris Dirie, the “Desert Flower,” is world-renowned and deeply moving. I am incredibly grateful that these speakers are showing their most vulnerable sides at our conference—but are also sharing with us how they managed to turn their lives around, so to speak. Because I think it’s important to be able to offer different perspectives and look toward the future.

 

At the LLL conference, you get the feeling that you're part of a big, cool group—but it still feels like a big family reunion.

You’re considered one of the best-connected women in Switzerland—and you’re involved in numerous projects in the areas of equality, empowerment, and journalism. Do you actually remember when and how these issues became so close to your heart?

To be honest, it has a lot to do with my mother. She was a very strict mom with French-Italian roots. She came from an extremely poor background; she was stunningly beautiful, but life didn’t always treat her well. That made her harden, almost to the point of misanthropy. She didn’t trust people; she always thought that everyone was cheating on her and lying to her—and, of course, that’s exactly what kept happening to her. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I was so different—for whatever reason! To this day, I still assume that everyone means well toward me, because I know that we’re all connected in one way or another. The pandemic has shown that quite impressively. I wear my heart on my sleeve and only realize what I’m thinking once I speak it. I know that I have to trust life, respect people, value them, and love them if I want others to treat me the same way. That’s why it was so important to me that, through everything I do, I can empower others to forge such strong and authentic relationships. Now, of course, you might ask: But why are you doing this for women? It’s simple. Because I saw, through my mother’s example, what a lack of trust does to a person. What isolation does to a person. And I’ve been searching for a way to do things differently. For myself. For others. That’s why I wholeheartedly love connecting people with one another and am over the moon whenever I succeed. My mother died in 2011 after more than 20 years of illness. And my father, who is a kind-hearted soul, had always wanted to travel with Mom after retirement and buy two donkeys and a dog. Now he sits alone in an empty house, suffering from MS and dementia, surrounded by two caregivers or housekeepers who help him get through the day, because he can no longer manage on his own. I always think to myself: There’s a reason why this happened to me, why I had to witness my parents’ fate. To have a chance to do things differently.

 

From your perspective, what is the state of gender equality in the Swiss economy? Are we seeing a clear trend toward greater DE&I, or do we still have some catching up to do compared to other countries?

In 2021, we sold a 10-year license for «Ladies Drive» to China. And during one of our first meetings, we discussed the top issues facing women in Switzerland, such as the gender pay gap, the gender pension gap, work-life balance, and diversity and inclusion. When the topic of diversity came up, our Chinese partner looked at me as if I were a bus and said that in China, everyone must contribute to the well-being of society. Of course, one can argue about whether what China does as a state is right in our eyes. Nevertheless, it was fascinating to hear this firsthand. We have some catching up to do—because diversity and inclusion aren’t issues just for the upper crust or some elite group. It’s a matter of fairness for everyone in society. Take a family that needs both incomes just to put food on the table. Wouldn’t it be more than just desirable—wouldn’t it be absolutely essential—that both partners are paid fairly? I’m deeply passionate about advocating for equal opportunity. And that includes all genders. And yes, we still have a lot of work to do. An open dialogue is necessary—but since the labor market is currently shifting toward a worker’s market, the pressure from people could very well soon leave employers with no other choice but to pay fair wages. That’s why we must never tire of pointing this out and demanding what is, after all, already mandated by law—equal pay for equal work. Diversity is important, but it must be managed so that decisions made by teams or management still enjoy broad support and the organization moves as unified as possible in the same direction. I believe we should do one thing without neglecting the other.

 

Men could just invite women to join them at their regulars' table and see what happens.

Let’s return to the topic of networking—which plays a major role not only at the conference but also in your personal life: Do women network differently than men?

Supposedly, yes. There are a few studies that suggest that men form alliances even if they don’t personally like each other, because they want to achieve a common goal. Meanwhile, women sometimes enjoy networking with like-minded people they like, but they tend not to enjoy working with them because they fear that money will ruin the friendship. The reality probably lies, as always, somewhere in between—but these studies usually have a grain of truth to them. What I’ve observed is this: Women are sometimes extremely hesitant when it comes to asking someone for a favor. They go to bed early at conferences so they’ll be well-rested the next day. And out of politeness, they often keep their networking interactions noncommittal. In contrast, I see men who call the CEO of a multinational company without batting an eye because they went to college together 20 years ago. They’re the ones who close the best deals at the bar after a conference. They’re the ones who make commitments and may tend to be a bit more assertive. And they even go to the sauna together as part of their networking. In that respect, we definitely still have something to learn from men.

 

What can women do better or differently on their own?

I don’t think women could do anything better—we’re called upon to find our own way of approaching networking, our careers, and work-life balance. I think simply copying the «male way» would be a mistake. That’s exactly why «Ladies Drive» exists. We didn’t want to be a derivative of an existing product aimed primarily at men. Instead, we wanted to create something new from the ground up—something authentic, genuine, and by and for women.

 

When we look at traditional «boys» clubs,” which still exist—and then at progressive institutions like the League of Leading Ladies—do you think everything will come together someday?

We are all closer and more interconnected than we sometimes realize—I’ve already mentioned this in the context of the pandemic. But the world of business, too, is interconnected in subtle and systemic ways. And so are we, as human beings. We are individual beings with our own unique needs, whether we are women or men. That is what we should respect. And yet, we all sustain the same system, if you look at it from the perspective of our environment and our biology. To answer your question: It doesn’t make sense for «everything» to come together, unless «everything» were the same. But then we’d be talking about conformity. And no longer about diversity. That’s why it makes sense for people with similar interests and needs to come together and exchange ideas. That doesn’t mean, of course, that you should ignore the rest of the world.

What should men do to help women gain access to networks that tend to be male-dominated?

Before we talk about what men should do, we really need to clarify why they should do it in the first place. What do men gain by giving women access to male-dominated networks? I’ve been moving in predominantly male circles since I was 20. And I’ve heard from time to time that a woman doesn’t need to be everywhere and is, quite simply, a distraction. I can understand that. After all, women also have their “girls’ night out,” where they deliberately stick to their own group. The question is rather whether it’s wise, specifically in business, to exclude 51% of the population. Whether it’s smart for an economy not to tap into the potential of this large group of people. Whether it makes sense to reserve certain jobs for only one gender, often paired with specific training. In my view, those are the far more important questions. Once we’ve answered them, the doors will open on their own. Not because men have to or should—but because they want to just as much. And if I’m to answer the question in very practical terms: You could simply invite women to join in and see what happens.

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The League of Leading Ladies conference will take place on June 12 and 13 in Bad Ragaz. There are still a few tickets left. Register at Leagueofleadingladies.com.

m&k: Nouriel Roubini, you have a nickname that you don’t particularly like—and that we won’t mention again here. But since I’m curious, I’d still like to ask: When and why did the media start calling you «Dr. Doom»?

Nouriel Roubini: This nickname dates back to a profile in the *New York Times Magazine* in 2008. My colleagues wrote a long article about me for the Sunday edition back then, and the headline read «Dr. Doom.» Before that, I was actually quite content to be known as Nouriel Roubini—but the nickname stuck, and even today people sometimes recognize me on the street and call out, «Hey, aren’t you that Dr. Doom?» I suppose there’s nothing I can do about it. (laughs).

I made the usual rounds at the International Monetary Fund and in Davos, gave keynote speeches, and wrote articles. However, I encountered considerable skepticism.

 

The *New York Times* took an interest in you for a specific reason: You were the first economist with a global reputation to predict the financial crisis of 2007 and 2008. And this despite the fact that many of your peers initially reacted to your forecasts with fierce rejection. How did you experience all of that at the time?

Well, I think I had made quite a name for myself by 2007: I had initially risen through the ranks in academia thanks to my position at New York University; I then established contacts with the White House and the U.S. Department of the Treasury, where I served as an advisor. I met all the key cabinet members, the central bank governors… and eventually, Wall Street took notice of me as well. More and more people working in the industry began reading my blog and reaching out to me with feedback or questions. Because I had already been researching the history of financial crises for more than a decade at that point, I was attuned to the subject—and in the spring of 2006, I began to focus my attention on the U.S. real estate market. Something was brewing; I saw signs that a bubble was about to burst there. And I could also imagine what consequences that would have for the global economy. So I made the usual rounds at the International Monetary Fund and in Davos, gave keynote speeches, and wrote articles. However, I was met with considerable skepticism—to put it mildly.

 

You were right after all: The mortgage bubble did indeed burst, the U.S. real estate market collapsed—and the result was a recession the likes of which we hadn’t seen in decades. Did you have an «I told you so!» moment back then?

When you face a lot of criticism for your predictions and reality then proves you right, you probably do feel a certain intellectual pride, yes. But—it’s actually no pleasure to be right about predicting a crisis that causes great economic and social suffering. When you realize the impact of a global recession on the lives of millions of people, then… well, then you probably wish—at least on an emotional level—that you’d been wrong. Furthermore, I didn’t—and don’t—harbor any resentment toward policymakers, CEOs, or other public officials. As an intellectual, I never had to be overly cautious about what I said. I never had to consciously hold back so as not to scare off investors or stabilize stock prices. Part of the skepticism I faced back then certainly stemmed from the roles my critics had to play. I, on the other hand, have always maintained the privilege of speaking my mind and refusing to compromise my convictions.

 

It's actually no pleasure to be right about predicting a crisis that causes great economic and social suffering.

This is also the case with your latest publication, a book titled *Megathreats: Ten Threats to Our Future and How We Can Survive Them*. In the German translation, the word «megathreat» was left in its original English form, but it could roughly be rendered as «super-threat» in our language. What do you mean by this term?

When I speak of a «megathreat,» I mean a threat that can have significant repercussions at both the national and global levels—on our economic future, our jobs, our savings… but I’m not limiting myself to economic threats alone; I’m also referring to non-economic threats that are intertwined with the economy. The risk of conflicts—cold and hot wars—between major powers that possess nuclear weapons would be one example. Or climate change. Or COVID-19, which has reminded us that global pandemics can still occur even in this day and age. Artificial intelligence, machine learning, and automation could lead to an exodus and massive unemployment among blue-collar workers and white-collar employees, but also among those who consider themselves part of the «creative class.» Furthermore, there is a backlash against liberal democracy, fueled in part by rising income and wealth inequality and the growing unease of the middle class. Many younger people feel that they are worse off today than their parents were a few decades ago, and the political manifestation of this is that radical, populist forces—on both the far right and the far left of the political spectrum—are gaining momentum.

 

So, with your book, you're trying to cover an incredibly broad field.

Normally, in economics—or in academia in general—the prevailing idea is that it’s better to write only about your own field and otherwise keep your mouth shut (laughs). But I think many people have now realized that you can no longer talk about the economy without taking into account what I call «megathreats»—and what others might refer to as «polycrises» or the «coexistence of catastrophes.» To understand our present, you have to take a holistic approach. And that’s exactly what I’m trying to do with my latest book. Of course, there are thousands of publications on every single «megathreat» I mention… but I’m trying to connect the dots and highlight the combined impact all these threats could have on the global economy. That, if you will, is my contribution to preparing for what is likely to be the most turbulent decade we will ever experience.

In January, the German magazine *Der Spiegel* quoted you as saying, «World War III has already begun.» I just checked—there are more than a thousand comments under the article, and more are still coming in. Is war the «megathreat» we should be most concerned about?

I don’t want to assign a weight to the «megathreats,» because even if some of them don’t seem to be of immediate urgency—such as climate change—the countermeasures we must take are all equally urgent. Saying, «First we’ll take care of this—and then we’ll take care of that…»—that simply won’t be possible. It’s about everything, everywhere, all at the same time. Nevertheless, if the war of aggression that Russia has launched against Ukraine spreads to NATO countries, the whole situation could very quickly spiral out of control. And that’s not our only problem: Iran is on the verge of building a nuclear bomb. I’ve just returned from a two-week vacation in Israel, and people there are considering preventive military action against the mullah regime. However, if the Israelis attack Iran, the oil price shock will be much greater than in 1973 and 1979. So this is not a decision that can simply be made on a whim. Relations between the U.S. and China are cooling by the hour; even balloons are leading to diplomatic outrage and military intervention. Some believe that China will attack Taiwan within the next twelve to twenty-four months; others believe it will take another five years. Either way, a confrontation is likely. Geopolitically speaking, we are living in a time that I would compare to the 1930s or early 1940s, and back then, it all ended in World War II. To refer back to my quote in *Der Spiegel*, does a Third World War really seem that unlikely to you?

Has the situation ever been as serious as it is now? We don't need to dramatize anything; we just need to listen—look closely—and draw our own conclusions.

 

Well, one could—optimistically, or at least pragmatically—argue that humanity has overcome serious crises in the past and that there are good reasons to believe we’ll pull through this time as well …

But has the situation ever been as serious as it is now? We don’t need to dramatize anything; we just need to listen—look closely—and draw our own conclusions: Not a day goes by without either a U.S. military official or a Chinese commander speculating that the two countries might go to war over the Taiwan issue. And that wouldn’t be a conventional war, but a nuclear war. If Iran gets «the bomb,» then Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and many other countries in the Middle East might also want «the bomb,» which would hardly be conducive to stability in the region. Even if the war in Ukraine doesn’t end in a nuclear exchange—which I can only hope for—other wars loom on the horizon. One day, our luck will run out. Yes, one can, of course, argue that humanity has already survived other terrible conflicts, but those were fought with conventional weapons—aside from the tragic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki—and there were also no significant «megathreats» looming in the background that people had to worry about at the same time. In the 20th century, we had World War I, the Spanish flu, a stock market crash, the Great Depression, trade wars, currency wars, inflation, deflation, hyperinflation, financial crises, massive unemployment, the rise of National Socialism in Germany, fascism in Italy, Franco’s regime in Spain, and an autocratic Japan—and then World War II and the Holocaust—but the total extinction of our own species was never a threat. A nuclear war could achieve this in the very short term; climate change could do so in the long term.

 

In your book, you also write about a «debt supercycle» as another «megathreat.» Can you explain to a «non-economist» what this term means?

The theory of the debt supercycle posits that economies go through long periods of rising debt, followed by a relatively sudden and severe correction once the debt is deemed unsustainable. In the «early phase» of the cycle, it is easy and inexpensive to obtain credit, which encourages individuals, businesses, and governments to take on more debt. Debt-driven growth can create an illusion of prosperity, but eventually the accumulated liabilities become a burden and slow down the economy. This «adjustment phase» is characterized by debt reduction; in other words, liabilities are repaid or, at the very least, written off. This process can be painful and very protracted for all involved, as it is often accompanied by falling asset values, bankruptcies, and high unemployment rates. I believe that this is exactly what lies ahead for us.

 

However, consumer behavior—at least in some markets—doesn’t strike me as an «adjustment phase,» but rather as the «initial phase» of a debt supercycle: People are happily borrowing money and maxing out their credit cards—it seems as though they’re betting on a much brighter future than the one you’re forecasting. Is that optimistic, naive… or just plain stupid?

Well, borrowing purchasing power from the future is precisely what sets the cycle described above in motion. But just because the cycle has gotten underway and is then going through various phases doesn’t necessarily mean people will stop behaving the way they did at the start. It’s not my place to judge anyone or make sweeping generalizations, but many Americans literally treated their homes as «ATMs» before the housing bubble burst in 2007. They financed their consumption by betting that the price of their home would rise—and that, if necessary, they could sell the house at a high price at any time to service their debts. When that was no longer possible, millions of people had accumulated enormous personal debt and had no chance of ever paying it back. But maybe that’s just how «we» are? I mean: People also used their student loans or their stimulus checks during the pandemic to engage in crypto day trading, and many have driven themselves into bankruptcy completely unnecessarily. Then again… politicians aren’t acting much better either. They’re piling up government debt to finance projects that increase their chances of reelection… «Just a few more good years, and by the time the debt comes due, we’ll be long gone.» And central banks fear a new recession so much that they keep loosening their regulations, tinkering with interest rates, and printing money—which in turn creates incentives to borrow this cheap money and start the cycle all over again.

 

Despite all this, your book on «megathreats» is not a nihilistic work; rather, it offers solutions to the challenges of our time.

Yes. For every «megathreat,» I propose socioeconomic solutions, but always under one premise: «There’s no such thing as a free lunch!» If there’s a threat, sacrifices must be made to overcome it. And you have to accept short-term costs to make a better future possible in the medium term. Unfortunately, politicians in particular tend to be rather reluctant to do this. Do you remember how the—now disgraced—German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder implemented a social policy that cost him his reelection? A few years later, that policy proved to be enormously beneficial for Germany. Something like that requires courage as well as a willingness to accept the loss of one’s own power in order to do the right thing.

 

The epilogue of your book paints a picture of both a bleak, dystopian future and a less dystopian—one might even say utopian—future. What prompted you to outline both scenarios?

The dystopian future is probably not even worthy of being called a «future,» since it would mean first the end of our species and then the end of our planet. Everything we know and cherish would cease to exist. The utopian future, on the other hand, is the ideal of a world in which we have succeeded in overcoming the «megathreats» by using technology to our advantage—a world in which we make the necessary sacrifices. My intention with this book is not to plunge readers into depression… it’s meant to be a wake-up call. Don’t hit the snooze button; don’t fall back asleep. Don’t be a zombie. Acknowledge that «megathreats» exist—and once you’ve acknowledged that, we can look for a solution. Because here, too, there are stages of grief …

 

… as in the works of the Swiss-American psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross …

Yes. When you start thinking about «megathreats,» the first reaction is often denial. What mustn’t be true simply can’t be true. The second reaction is anger. You might blame the «messenger» and write in the comments section on Amazon: «Dr. Doom, you’re a complete idiot!» (laughs). Then comes despair; you give up and tell yourself that there’s no hope left anyway. And once you’ve moved past that, you accept it. This shouldn’t lead to stagnation, but rather trigger a level-headed process of seeking solutions. I think most people are still somewhere between denial and anger right now, which is why they tell themselves that my message is too pessimistic. It isn’t. We can overcome all of this, but it won’t be easy.

 

Do you really believe there is such a thing as «we»? Can we hope for global consensus and cooperation when the world’s major powers are as hostile toward one another as they are now?

The decline of the United States as a leading global power—generally benevolent, if not flawless—has left a power vacuum. Autocracies such as Russia or China are neither capable of—nor interested in—filling this vacuum, and the European Union, too, does not seem ready to assume this role. I cannot offer you a perfect solution to this problem, but we can hope that reason will eventually prevail among those in charge. The danger that our very existence is at stake could, at least for a time, bridge our differences.

 

Despite the serious issues you deal with every day, you seem quite calm. How do you go about your daily life in the face of the «megathreats» you want to draw our attention to?

I meditate and practice mindfulness. Since humans are social beings, compassion and caring are very important to me. I absolutely love spending time with my friends, cooking, and having discussions with them. I enjoy writing and reflecting. Perhaps that’s why I’ve become a «public intellectual»: because I care about the people I know, but also about those I don’t know. I want them all to be well, and I want to share my ideas on how that can be achieved. I’ve also overcome the urge to «run away»—it’s very liberating, believe me!

What do you mean by that?

I live in New York City, and this is where I’ll stay. I was here when the city became America’s «Ground Zero» for COVID-19 and most people fled to the countryside or to Florida. Over the years, I’ve witnessed numerous demonstrations and uprisings, from «Occupy Wall Street» to the «Black Lives Matter» movement. New York City will always be in the eye of the storm—no matter which «megathreat» from my book strikes first. But the eye of the storm is preferable to any kind of bubble or illusion of safety one might indulge in. For me, there is no other way to live: You can’t escape the world, into «La La Land» or delusional fantasies. And so I go about my daily life. I am aware of the threats and dangers, but I also—as best I can—work for the common good. There are moments of happiness, even in a world that is burning on many fronts; and trying to extinguish at least some of those fires is—as I see it—an endeavor that is as noble as it is rewarding.

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Nouriel Roubini is Professor Emeritus of Economics at New York University’s Stern School of Business. He is also CEO of Roubini Macro Associates, LLC, a global macroeconomic consulting firm based in New York, and co-founder of Rosa & Roubini Associates, based in London. Nouriel Roubini is considered the first economist of global renown to have predicted the collapse of the U.S. housing market and the ensuing recession in 2007 and 2008.