"Under no circumstances should there be a 'man vs. machine'"

MK Are today's marketers well enough trained?

BETTINA HÖCHLI There are certainly many good training opportunities in the field of marketing today. In general, it is important that training courses keep up with the times and also take future requirements into account. Driven in particular by digitalization, the way we work, how we communicate with each other and how we consume is changing, which influences which skills are helpful for a person in marketing. If we compare today's tasks in marketing with the tasks that were particularly in demand 20 years ago, these changes become obvious.

MK What does this mean for people who are currently in the middle of their training?

HÖCHLI People who are trained today will still be working in 10 or 20 years' time - at a time when the world will be different from today. For this reason, the important thing in today's training is not to impart specialist knowledge, but to enable people to learn quickly, recognize opportunities, adapt to new situations and reflect on themselves. This is the only way marketers will be able to master future challenges. Because they will definitely come.

MK In which areas do you still see knowledge deficits?

HÖCHLI I see two areas in particular that have gained in importance in recent years and therefore need to be examined more closely in the future: Behavioural economics approaches and the digitalization and availability of data.Behavioural economics is based on the insight that consumers do not behave rationally. We very often make decisions intuitively and in a very short space of time. We also make decisions when we are hungry, frustrated or tired. This can all lead to us as consumers not making decisions in the way we would from a rational perspective: From drinking coffee to losing weight, from buying a car to choosing a romantic partner, we consistently overpay, underestimate risk or procrastinate.

MK And to what extent does behavioral economics help to deal with this fact?

HÖCHLI Behavioral economics approaches attempt to understand and even predict this seemingly "irrational" behavior. While such approaches have long been known in marketing, behavioral economics creates a uniform framework in which these ideas can be classified, examined and applied. This frequent misperception of one's own behavior means that consumers who report in surveys or focus groups about what they would like and which option they would choose make different decisions in reality. This lack of real data and facts is changing.

MK I assume this is where digitalization comes into play?

HÖCHLI Yes, digitalization means that more and more data is available and consumer decisions can be tracked and tested in real time. This provides a new basis for scientific insights into how consumers behave and levers to influence consumer behavior; it is a basis for understanding how we actually make decisions and behave instead of just thinking about how we would decide. In order to use these approaches for marketing, digital, analytical and scientific skills are needed, and such behavioral economics approaches are often used in a way that most people consider ethical: to entice people to eat healthier, exercise more or live a sustainable lifestyle. Nevertheless, the question remains as to whether consumers themselves decide what they want or whether companies and organizations make the decision for them. This must also be addressed in education. If companies make decisions for consumers, are they making the right decisions?

MK What jobs do you think will no longer exist in marketing and communication in the future?

HÖCHLI Digitalization will initially lead to the elimination of jobs that focus on routine work and specialist knowledge. However, computers are also increasingly better able to analyze and evaluate complex issues, such as sifting through and analyzing large amounts of data.

MK But there are also a lot of new jobs, right?

HÖCHLI I definitely share this opinion. While marketing via digital channels such as YouTube, Facebook or Instagram hardly played a role in companies ten years ago, they are now among the most important channels. The use of big data and the relevance of human-machine interactions are also more recent phenomena. These changes show that many jobs will be created in the future that we cannot even imagine today.

MK What special skills will employees need in the future?

HÖCHLI Machines are still not particularly good at thinking critically and developing creative ideas. Social skills such as empathy or knowledge of human nature are also not learned as quickly by machines. These skills distinguish humans from machines and will therefore be even more in demand in the future than they already are today. The consulting firm Cognizant describes in a report what such professions could look like in concrete terms: data detective, fitness commitment counselor or a sherpa for the virtual reality store are just a few of them, but it is important to note that all these possible professions are by no means about "man versus machine": Machines can do work for us that they can do faster and better, thereby supporting human work. The interaction between man and machine is becoming increasingly important. Last but not least, new questions are also arising in relation to this cooperation: Which tasks do we want to hand over to machines from an ethical and legal perspective? And which tasks do we not want to hand over to machines, even if it were technically possible?

MK What would you like to see from the Swiss education system?

HÖCHLI That a focus is placed on what distinguishes people from machines: Creativity, problem solving, inventiveness. The world of work is becoming more flexible. We will not work in the profession we have learned until we retire and perform the same tasks for the rest of our lives, but will take on several roles. Training should enable us to do just that: to exploit our own potential.

MK Change of subject: The proportion of women in management positions is still very low. Why is that?

HÖCHLI Women look after children more often than men and therefore also work part-time more frequently. This makes it more difficult to hold a management position today, which often requires a very high time commitment. A management position with a workload of 60% is rarely possible, and the political structures in Switzerland in particular often stand in the way of a sensible work-life balance and gender equality. The Glass Ceiling Index, which measures how well women are integrated into a country's labor market based on characteristics such as salary, maternity and paternity leave, schooling, childcare costs and the proportion of women in management positions, ranks Switzerland 26th out of 29.

MK What are the specific effects of the structures you mentioned?

HÖCHLI Due to such structures, traditional gender roles and role stereotypes remain anchored in everyday life and are very slow to adapt. New role models have not yet been established. If you want to break away from traditional role models, you need a lot of initiative: every couple and every family has to find a way to organize themselves, who takes on which tasks and how to deal with gender roles. This requires a great deal of coordination and discussion.

MK ... and that can be quite a challenge ...

HÖCHLI It is often easier to return to the traditional, clear role models in which it is clear who should take on which tasks. The fact that traditional gender roles no longer correspond to everyday reality can also be observed in the business context: Being assertive or asserting one's own opinion are still seen today as rather masculine characteristics.If a woman resolutely stands up for her opinion and reprimands employees, she is often not seen as a strong, assertive woman who has everything under control, but as gruff and abrasive. This shows that the image of a woman and the image of a manager do not yet fit together. Here, too, it is a question of questioning and redefining roles: How do leadership and femininity fit together? "A final point in this context is the shift in power: a greater representation of women in leadership positions means that the representation of men decreases. Giving up some of the power is not easy for anyone. This can lead to defense mechanisms.

MK What can we do about this?

HÖCHLI Society needs to be made more aware of the issue. From an economic perspective, it is clear that companies with mixed teams and a balanced gender ratio in decision-making positions are more successful. The figures speak for themselves. Moreover, from an economic perspective, it makes no sense at all to train women if the majority of these women then work in small jobs and have little decision-making power. Although equality between women and men is enshrined in law, the demands are very difficult to implement. Equal pay, for example, has still not been achieved despite good intentions. And this despite the fact that many companies claim that equal pay is very important to them. The task now is not just to talk the talk, but also to put the talk into action.

MK Are there already positive developments here?

HÖCHLI Initiatives such as Equal Pay Day or certificates that independently analyze companies' equal pay are a good first step. In this way, gender equality in companies becomes a visible feature with which companies can distinguish themselves both among employees and for consumers, and targets to fill a certain percentage of decision-making bodies with women also make sense. This makes the difference between good intentions and actual behavior visible. However, in order to implement this sustainably, many companies need a cultural change: Women need to be promoted right from the start, not just shortly before they make the leap into management.