WW: You have been reporting from China since 2006 and some of your reports have won awards. Are the topics for scoop reports on the street in China? So you simply go through everyday life with your eyes open and the topics come to you. Or do you search for specific topics? Why did you go to China to work as a journalist? What attracts you to this country? Sanctions, harassment, censorship - everyday life for you? Or is that a Western cliché? Have you ever had to abandon a reporting project due to external pressure? Or have you managed to get every story through so far? How often have you been arrested in the course of your work? Do you sometimes set yourself limits so as not to jeopardize your reports? Or do you wait until you are stopped by the authorities or the police? You would never put your team or informants at risk. What would you never do yourself for a story? Your working conditions are obviously very different from those of your Chinese colleagues. Why does China grant foreign reporters privileges that Chinese journalists do not have? PricewaterhouseCoopers recently predicted that China will be the world's largest economic power by 2050. Do you share this opinion? And how is that possible with such an understanding of journalism? After all, a functioning and recognized world power also needs a strong media system. By communicating openly, China could counteract the danger that things are constantly bubbling under the surface - and that the cauldron will explode uncontrollably at some point. How do you feel when you experience something like that? After all, you don't just work as a journalist in China, you also live there, have a family and a young daughter. Don't you sometimes have a queasy feeling? Interview: Anne-Friederike Heinrich In a nutshell 
Barbara Lüthi: Yes, absolutely. And just: On the street. I think it's important to look beyond what you see first. In Shanghai or Beijing, you see the skyline, everything is modern and beautiful, that's the economic miracle of China. But who builds these buildings? It's the migrant workers. It's all there, you just have to be open and have the courage to look at the whole picture. After all, that's the job of a journalist.
Both. My Chinese assistant also gives me a lot of ideas about which topics would be exciting and important. There are classic topics that you simply have to have as news. And then there are lots of other things that partly arise from the classic content. For example, I was researching a report on economic growth in China during the crisis and came across ghost towns where nobody lives. They were only built to boost growth. I then investigated the matter, spoke to experts and to the few people who live in these cities. This resulted in a report about ghost towns. I don't work any differently in China than I do in Switzerland. But there are actually more issues on the street in China, because everything is constantly moving and changing, nothing has a fixed form. If you are alert, it is relatively easy to find good topics. You just have to look at what is happening and why.
On the one hand, the dynamism that you can feel in the cities and coastal regions, that's the fascinating thing about China. Everything is possible there, the Chinese have a just-do-it mentality. On the other hand, there's the tradition in the countryside. Very different people come together there: on the one hand, those who still live traditionally, but also more and more people who see that they are lagging behind and are no longer satisfied. This creates social unrest. This tense relationship is not only an extreme challenge for the Chinese government, but also very exciting to document from a journalistic perspective. The central government knows exactly where the problem lies - but try to implement it with 1.3 billion people, with one-party rule and centralized control, with a form of government that drives the economy forward but is no longer modern enough for the people. With economic growth, the government has created a class that wants to participate and demands a different form of government. That is a contradiction in terms. It will be very exciting to see what happens over the next ten years.
That happens very often. But it depends a bit: It's quite easy to do research in the cities, but we're usually stopped in the countryside. Because the authorities have no idea about the laws. And when we go to the countryside and talk to people, they get restless. Then we have to go to the police station and are questioned about our plans, or we have to have two or three cups of tea with the party secretary. Sometimes it's quite harmless, and sometimes they take us to the airport and say: "We don't want you to report on this." These are stories that are difficult from the local authority's point of view. For example, they don't understand why a foreigner comes to their village and wants to do a report on polluted rivers and people dying of esophageal cancer. They are not used to it and have never dealt with foreign media before. But when I go to the Foreign Ministry, they don't think the story is cool either, but they give their OK. However, I have to emphasize my request. There is no freedom of opinion or freedom of the press in China, you can't sugarcoat it. Of course we feel that, and it's often difficult. Chinese journalists who dare to report on such things end up in prison. I have quite a few colleagues who are in prison. It happens very quickly and then you're simply gone.
So far I've gotten every story through, but sometimes it took a year before we were finished with the report.
(ponders, counts) I was held down ... about ten times. I think that's still possible.
Yes, I set limits. But not so as not to endanger myself, but to protect my Chinese employees and my sources. According to a new law, foreign journalists are actually allowed to move freely around the country, they just need permission from their interview partner. Of course, this is a rubber article. Because if a local authority detains me and I say that I have permission from my interview partner, they naturally want to know who that is. And logically, I don't name the farmer I've just spoken to. That's why we often work so elaborately and drive to a village at night or early in the morning under blankets in the back of a car, conduct our interviews and then leave before anyone knows we're there. Later, we always call to find out whether everything is okay with the people involved. But sometimes there are situations in which we don't go ahead with a project because an interviewee could get into big trouble afterwards. It's simply not worth it. People always think we'll help and everything will be fine. But that's not true. And I always make that very clear and avoid letting informants run into dangerous situations.
It's difficult to say, I go to great lengths for a good story. But I would only do very sensitive things without my Chinese employees, because they would go to prison very quickly and for a long time if the worst came to the worst. Not much can happen to me, on the other hand. In the worst case, I get a stamp in my passport, have to hand in my journalist visa and am never allowed back into the country. That would solve the problem for the Chinese government. I don't think they would put me in prison. That would be far too much trouble for the government. Because then they would have to deal with Switzerland for months or years.
The Chinese government has a completely different understanding of journalism than we do. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs invites foreign journalists into the country because China wants the country to be reported on. They bring us in and are then amazed that we don't just do positive stories, but also critical ones. They say: "Now they've come for the Olympics, why are they going to the farmers now?" The Chinese government is surprised that such reports are being produced at all. However, it cannot prevent foreign journalists from reporting abroad and is not particularly affected by the fact that a few Swiss people see critical reports. Chinese journalists, on the other hand, are harassed. The Chinese government controls what news is published within
China because it does not want the population to find out about the problems in China. Because that disturbs the so-called "harmonious society". And the small spark that could arise could become a wildfire. This is why the civilian population is sometimes threatened with disproportionately harsh punishments. In China, 200,000 children are abducted every year as a result of the one-child policy. The children are sold to parents who would like to have a second child but are not allowed to. The parents of the abducted children have traveled around the country with pictures of their children in order to find them again. They are now facing five years in prison for "illegal assembly" - the same sentence that the kidnappers are facing. The actions of the desperate parents have made other people realize that all is not well in China. This is what the government is most afraid of.
China will certainly become the biggest economic power, I believe that too. But the question is how you define "power". China can become a world power simply by buying Africa and Europe, and certainly militarily, because all it needs is money to overtake the USA. But a world power also needs international diplomacy, a culture and a media system. And I'm not sure whether China will be able to provide all of this by 2050 under this government. HSBC Bank has said that China will also be a cultural leader by 2050. (takes a deep breath) ... today, Oasis and the Rolling Stones still can't perform in China because their lyrics allegedly undermine the government's goals. China will have to step on the gas if it wants to achieve this by 2050. It's not just about democracy, China needs an independent legal system, people must be able to complain about abuses. And an independent legal system also needs free media and journalists who fulfill the function of a regulator. Then something would start to change. But no one can say how long that will take.
Exactly. And the pressure is getting stronger and stronger. I remember the anniversary of the Communist Party very well. There was a huge parade in Beijing, but no one was allowed out on the street or even on the balcony to watch. There were posters everywhere saying that you had to expect to be shot if you went onto the balcony. Snipers were lying in wait everywhere. A lot of people wondered what that was all about: "After all, it's the People's Republic of China's birthday - and we're human beings. Why do we have to hole up in our rooms now? What's wrong with that?"
When I look at it as a journalist, I am very critical of it. But as a person, I feel very comfortable. Especially with my daughter it's great, the Chinese love children. It's much easier with children in China than in Switzerland. When I go to the park with my daughter, I'm immediately surrounded by all the Chinese moms, who are all happy and playing with the little one. In the restaurant, the lovely waitresses come straight away and help Lara with her food, which is really very easy. In Zurich, many restaurants don't even have
a high chair.
Barbara Lüthi (37) studied economics and languages in Zurich and Sydney and began her career as a video journalist and editor for Swiss television stations, including the political and business magazine Rundschau. In 2005, she received the CNN Journalist Award for a report on working conditions in Chinese toy factories and the Kindernothilfe Germany TV Award for a report on child trafficking on the Greek-Albanian border. In 2008, she was again presented with the CNN Journalist Award, this time for the report "Land expropriation in China". She was also named CNN Journalist of the Year. Lüthi has lived in Beijing since 2006 with her husband Tomas Etzler, who works as a China correspondent for Czech television, and their two-year-old daughter Lara Uma.